120' lines

[denverberry]

How much were those rolls of #90 line you guys bought from Dave?

[Babbman]

How much were those rolls of #90 line you guys bought from Dave?

It was around $80 for 1000'

[denverberry]

And the sleeving was about 20? Do you use a sleeving tool? Or do you have some technique to sleeve without the sleeving tool?

[Frodos Majik]

Was the same $$ for me. I dont remember what the sleeving material cost, bought a set with a roll of black and a roll of white quite awhile back. I also got the sleeving kit too, IMHO its worth the few dollars more makes thing so much easier.

[denverberry]

Does that kit come with the sleeving tool?

[Mike]

The kit is easiet, but if you want, you can also use any braided kite line for sleeving. I use 50#. You can use piano wire from the hardware store, a guitar string, or floral wire from the hobby store for a sleeving tool too.

[Babbman]

I had a sleeving kit that Dave gave me back in April. Really, it's just a loop of piano wire or guitar wire. I'd say that if you went to any music store and just bought a high e string, it would work fine.

When I bought my line, I asked dave to include some sleeving material. He sent me about 10 foot each of black and neon yellow. It's works great as it's inside diameter is close to the 90# weight...

I got 2 sets of 120' lines out of it. I did find that making the lines out on the field was much easier than trying to do it on my kitchen... Took me about 1/2 hour or so when we did the club fly.

[awindofchange]

You can also use a "fid" to put a loop in your lines without using any sleeving or knots. It does take a little more time to do than sleeving and knotting but you don't lose any of the line strength and there are no knots to tangle. If anyone is interested in this method, let me know and I will try to post some pics.

_________
Happy Winds!
Kent

[Mike]

I''ve done that too using, if I recall correctly, a crochet hook. I didn't do it with spectra though, I did it with regular kite line. I've also made no-knot loops with a piece of wire which was easier for me. I would have thought that it would have slipped out in spectra, but from what you're saying, I guess not (knot?).
The finished loop does look pretty sleek.

[Babbman]

You can also use a "fid" to put a loop in your lines without using any sleeving or knots. It does take a little more time to do than sleeving and knotting but you don't lose any of the line strength and there are no knots to tangle. If anyone is interested in this method, let me know and I will try to post some pics.

_________
Happy Winds!
Kent

I'm game.... I hate the knots...

you always have good advice on anything kite....

[denverberry]

Ok, educate me. "FID"? What if I might ask is this???

Also, I'm a lover of knots! If you notice on the handle of my bag I am using a monkey's fist knot instead of a buckle. I just like to play with string, cord, and rope, nothing really serious but I love knots.

[Babbman]

Well, I had to call Kent and get an explanation on FID... I think what I heard was... (please correct me if I am wrong Mike)...

Think Chinese Finger Puzzle...

Similar to sleeving where you put your tool through the sleeving and then put your line through the tools loop and pull your line through. But in this case, you run the tool into the side of your line, run up the core a ways and then back out, then pull the end of your line inside of itself... once done, any pull on the loop will cause the line to tighten in on itself.

Viola, no sleeving and no knots... did I picture this correctly?

You would need to tie off a small pigtail to give you something to grab on to in order to disconnect your lines from the kite/handles though...

Now, other than the pain of trying to get in to the core of a 90# line, are there any serious drawbacks to doing this?

[Mike]

Well, I still think that spectra loops might slip. But you've got the idea Babbman.
Oh, and a fid is just tool to help in tying knots. In the old days the sailors used a stick to help work the knots.

[Babbman]

I've got a left over 5' piece of spectra that I'll try this on tonight...

And I think you may be correct Mike... when there is no tension on the line, it could slip.

[awindofchange]

Another name for a Fid is a Latch Hook Needle. And you are correct in that if you loosen up the braid on the loop, you can pull the loop back out of the line. The reason the line does not pull out is that once you pull the line through the center of the core it is inverted and the end is then tucked back into the "non-inverted" part of the line. This locks the line together so it doesn't slip. Basically any latch hook needle will work as long as it is small enough to fish up through the center of your line.

I have set up a page that shows the Fid's as well as the method used to make the loop if any are interested:
Fid / Latch Hook Page

Hope this helps.


_________________
Happy Winds!
Kent

[Mike]

That's what it was, a latch hook thingy. I think I got mine at Wal-Mart in the sewing section. Either that or a fabric store. I don't know that the one I bought would fit in spectra though. I'll have to look for it and give a try later.

[Babbman]

Kent, that's a great resource page....

thanks much!

[Mike]

Yeah, where my manners? Thanks from me too.

[Chris]

Just got my spool of line today Man, David is fast with the shipping. Only have one winder though, I'll be ready for the next club fly, even though the weather is about to bottom out this week

Oh, well, at least I can make kites if I can't fly them

[denverberry]

Ok, so I've been using this same method of creating a tension loop for years in boating, kayaking. (I learned it in the NAVY) I've never heard it referred to as FID though... What does that stand for?

You really think the spectra line would slip a tension loop? Probably could make the loop, soak the line while loose, then tighten it while wet... You think that'd hold with the spectra?

(I also love using this same technique for tension splicing)