New Dual-Line Flyer With Questions

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basicbill
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New Dual-Line Flyer With Questions

Postby basicbill » Sun, Jun 15 2014, 06:37 PM

Hello all,


I posted this at another forum too, but would appreciate input from you folks.

I recently bought a dual-line kite to see if the multi-line thing would interest me. I had an Amazon gift card and ordered a Prism Nexus. I'm wondering if there is a suggested series of dual-line maneuvers to practice in a certain order to build proficiency? A series of learning building blocks. Pull turns, punch turns and stalls are a few of the answers I've received. And the use of the "Dodd's 6 step Learning/Practice system" was suggested also.

Yesterday I was practicing for about an hour and decided to video my last session. http://youtu.be/rysY_1p2nxo As you can see, I basically fly a bunch of figure eights and would like to move on from that. But to what?

Any suggestions and critiques of what you see are appreciated.

Bill

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Mike
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Re: New Dual-Line Flyer With Questions

Postby Mike » Mon, Jun 16 2014, 06:48 AM

Hi Bill, welcome to the club!
You're basic control seems pretty good. I think it's time to fly squares and diamonds rather than figure eights. That will allow you practice the sharp corners with the Punch turns that other's have mentioned. That will give you some basic precision moves. Dodd Gross's lessons are also a great suggestion.

I transferred from dual line to quad line many years ago. Back before people were doing much in the way of tricks with duals, so I can't really help you with tricking. You could try hitting some of the big kite festivals to get some tips too. Unfortunately, there aren't any until the end of August. Click on the "Calendar" link at the top of this page to see a list of festivals. Kites Over Lake Michigan and Frank Mots are good ones.

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goestoeleven
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Re: New Dual-Line Flyer With Questions

Postby goestoeleven » Mon, Jun 16 2014, 07:05 AM

Welcome Basicbill!

I am also not a dual line flyer, so I'm probably not the best to answer. I probably fly about 95% quad, 4% single line, 1% dual line. However, I concur with everything Mike said. I've heard good things about the Dodd Gross lessons, and I think he was making some of them available on YouTube, so you might try there.

We also have several club members in the (somewhat local) area who fly dual lines, so I'd suggest trying to connect with us for a club fly sometime this summer. Some of us have met at the St. Charles east side sports complex a few times in the last year to fly. We have local members in Sugar Grove, Elgin, Wheaton, etc. who might fly dual lines with you and can give you some pointers, plus there are members a bit further away (Michigan, Indiana) who fly duals. I'm sure all the dual line fliers will be happy to have another IKE'r to fly duals with them.

TMadz
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Re: New Dual-Line Flyer With Questions

Postby TMadz » Mon, Jun 16 2014, 09:31 AM

Hi Bill. I am picking up my dual lines again. I like Dodd's lessons better than the Prism DVD, There are other sources out there with more tutorials. You're going to have a little bit of a hard time with the Nexus. Nice kite, but too small to really practice tricks with. You can practice slides, axle's snap stall and the basics, but you need a 3/4 or full size at least for real tricking. But that's later. I have a couple of kites you could borrow if you like. That Nexus is great fun in high wind, but you need something that's going to give you options from 7-10 mph. Let's try to set up a club fly. The best way to figure out if you like it is to fly OPK (other peoples kites). Kiters gladly share their kites for people to try. East side park is nice. So is O'Breen (west side park).

We're a friendly bunch always looking or excuses to fly.
Bonum vinum laetificat cor hominis

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basicbill
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Re: New Dual-Line Flyer With Questions

Postby basicbill » Mon, Jun 16 2014, 10:14 AM

Thanks for the replies, guys.

I'll keep working on smooth concise turns and such. More angular turns too. Tricks are way down my list at this point.

I can already see where a larger kite might be in my future.

Bill

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goestoeleven
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Re: New Dual-Line Flyer With Questions

Postby goestoeleven » Mon, Jun 16 2014, 12:16 PM

Yeah, it's like golf. You need a different club (kite) for every situation. After all the rain in Canada this weekend, I'm thinking I "need" a good single line indoor kite.

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cadguy
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Re: New Dual-Line Flyer With Questions

Postby cadguy » Tue, Jun 17 2014, 06:57 AM

Steve... you have material, maybe some small diameter carbon, and tape.... so just make an indoor kite...

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goestoeleven
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Re: New Dual-Line Flyer With Questions

Postby goestoeleven » Tue, Jun 17 2014, 09:00 AM

Yeah . . . But I want it to fly like yours . . .

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Re: New Dual-Line Flyer With Questions

Postby TMadz » Tue, Jun 17 2014, 09:21 AM

Bill, I sent you a PM
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illescasd
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Re: New Dual-Line Flyer With Questions

Postby illescasd » Tue, Jun 17 2014, 09:51 AM

Good AM everyone, yes I am picking up my duals again, so it'll be good to start zipping around with them again. Or quads,,, What a quandary...
"Don't bend the spoon, bend the space around it,,,"

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Re: New Dual-Line Flyer With Questions

Postby Trigger » Tue, Jun 17 2014, 10:42 PM

I love my duals and flying with someone is the best way to learn. All good advise above, bigger kite will help alot and lower your usable wind range. MICHIGAN City the 27th 28th and i have some you can fly :)

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Re: New Dual-Line Flyer With Questions

Postby basicbill » Fri, Jun 20 2014, 04:13 PM

I was out this afternoon with my Nexus at the nearby, soggy East Side Sports Complex in St. Charles. The wind mostly cooperated at about 11 mph to almost nothing at times. Basic flying was going well so I decided to try a roll (Spin? The thing where the lines twist.) The other day when I tried a few I was not aggressive enough and did not get the kite around before the ground got in the way. This time I really pulled hard and held it so it went around within about one wingspan. Remembering which way I went, I did one the other way to untwist the lines. Did quite a few of these in succession and was having a lot of fun with it. Even tried twice around a couple of times. Nothing to you experienced folks but to me it was a big deal.

I don't think I'm ready to fly this in front of a festival crowd yet. But I'm learning. And having fun. (I do have another, larger, "slower" dual-line kite on the way.)

Bill


Prism Nexus.jpg
Prism Nexus
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TMadz
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Re: New Dual-Line Flyer With Questions

Postby TMadz » Fri, Jun 20 2014, 06:20 PM

Nice start. When you get comfortable with it, the punch turn is a quicker response than the pull turn. The kite just goes opposite directions with the different turns. Right pull turn goes clockwise, right push turn goes counter clockwise.
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basicbill
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Re: New Dual-Line Flyer With Questions

Postby basicbill » Fri, Jun 20 2014, 08:29 PM

Thanks TMadz. Yes, I'm working on those also. I get into them fine but a precise roll-out at where I want to go has been elusive so far. Practice, practice.

Bill

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basicbill
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Re: New Dual-Line Flyer With Questions

Postby basicbill » Tue, Jul 01 2014, 09:25 PM

I'm going to put this question into my original post and hope that it gets found.

Regarding winding up dual lines. I think I've got it down now... preferring the criss-cross (figure eight method) onto the winder. I am pretty much now getting it on and off the winder tangle free. (With one terrible exception.) What I don't get is which ends to start with. Do I start by wrapping the straps onto the winder first? Or the ends which attach to the kite and end up with the straps? I think it makes sense to be able to attach the lines to the assembled kite and walk away from it unwinding as you go. Which means start winding at the strap end.

There seems to be lots of tutorials and discussion about quad line winding on the web, but less so about the dual stuff. At least that I can find.

Thanks,

Bill

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Re: New Dual-Line Flyer With Questions

Postby TMadz » Tue, Jul 01 2014, 10:42 PM

Hey Bill. Two less lines are two less to tangle. I do the figure 8 method for dualies. Because I usually have my dualie staked I start at the kite end . I tried to wind the straps up a few times, but they usually end up slipping out and flop around when winding up the rest of the line, which in turn leads to tangles. I always found it easier to work towards the straps because next time out I stake the straps down first and work my way out to the kite and set up the kite. Saves a trip.
Bonum vinum laetificat cor hominis

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Re: New Dual-Line Flyer With Questions

Postby KiteVoice » Wed, Jul 02 2014, 07:23 AM

Fliers do it both ways. It's a matter of personal preference. I like to unwind from the kite to the flying position, so I can fly as soon as I get there.

ETA: But ironically that's just with the duallies. With my Revs, I stake down the handles and unwind the lines while carrying the kite to its launching position, hook up the kite and then walk back to the handles.
I decided I needed a signature line, so I wrote this.

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Re: New Dual-Line Flyer With Questions

Postby makatakam » Wed, Jul 02 2014, 09:41 AM

I you develop a split personality, you can start in the middle and work towards both ends. Since there will now be one of you at each end, you never have to do the walk of shame and setting up and breaking down is really fast because one of you can break down the kite while the other winds the lines, Of course when breaking down you start at the ends and work towards the middle. If you have multiple (more than two) then the others can be packing away the rest of the equipment and chatting with other kiters and spectators, eating and drinking and taking a smoke break while one of you goes to the washroom.
MARK

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Jeepster
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Re: New Dual-Line Flyer With Questions

Postby Jeepster » Wed, Jul 02 2014, 10:24 AM

KiteVoice wrote:... It's a matter of personal preference. ...


That phrase is a master description of ALL things kiting!

Lines: The Fosters assemble their Rev kite, attach the lines and unwind towards the handles. When finished flying, they detach the lines, disassemble the kite and wind the lines up towards the handles. They like to reverse their lines each time they fly. Oh yes, there are also those folks who have given up on winding a line set on the same winder ... they use a different winder for each line in the set.

Sewing: When building the Bull Dog kite I read the form posts made by the 50 or so builders who had completed theirs ... also viewed the assembly albums posted by a half dozen or so builders. Took 5 1/2 hours to read, re-read and digest the information. Of the three primary stitch types that builders use (straight, zig-zag and three-step zig-zag) all three were used by at least one builder on each seam on the Bull Dog kite. As a new sewer, it was terribly frustrating until I realized that it didn't matter ... stitch type simply didn't matter towards how the kite functioned ... it was that damn personal preference stuff.

Quads, Dualies, Single line: Which one is best? Yep, personal preference ... in fact, some of us prefer more than one.

It actually would be easier to assemble a list of those things in kiting where there is only one way to do it. So Bill, absolutely don't fret about doing anything in kiting the "right way" - "the only way" - "the approved way" - etc.. Try them all and decide what works for you. Looks like you're already on your way with a preference towards using the figure eight method ... which is the only, truly correct method.

Cheers,
Tom

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Re: New Dual-Line Flyer With Questions

Postby goestoeleven » Wed, Jul 02 2014, 01:18 PM

Jeepster wrote:
KiteVoice wrote:... It's a matter of personal preference. ...

... which is the only, truly correct method.


Except for the other methods . . . . :-D :twisted:

I'll get in trouble for this, but . . . .

Sometimes, for shorter quad line sets (i.e. < 40 ft) I just wind them around a set of handles . . . .


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