Suggestions on a good starter Rev

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TMadz
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Suggestions on a good starter Rev

Postby TMadz » Tue, Oct 09 2012, 10:24 AM

Alright, before I hear it, this isn't for me. Since the retreat my son, Brendan, has been talking about Rev's. (a poor, misguided child ;) ) So, my question is what would be a good rev to start him on. I have been catching up with the lingo and think a standard EXP or a B series 2 would be good, but I by no means am confidant of that assessment. I''m sure everyone will offer lots of good advice. Keep in mind this will probably be flown through fall, winter and spring, so I'm wondering if wind conditions should be a factor for the next 7-8 months.

I know the forums now and can probably find what I'm looking for cheaper than new so I'm hoping price won't be an issue.
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Jynx
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Re: Suggestions on a good starter Rev

Postby Jynx » Tue, Oct 09 2012, 12:41 PM

Personally I'd stick with a nice used Standard (full-sail) 1.5, whether EXP, SLE, or B-Series 1.5.

The B-series "2" are fun but twitchy. I think a 1.5 will be more maneuverable for him.
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KiteVoice
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Re: Suggestions on a good starter Rev

Postby KiteVoice » Tue, Oct 09 2012, 03:32 PM

Jynx wrote:Personally I'd stick with a nice used Standard (full-sail) 1.5, whether EXP, SLE, or B-Series 1.5.


In terms of learning to fly, what's the difference between the EXP and SLE? I know the SLE has the "super leading edge". What I don't know is how that affects (if at all) learning to fly the beast.
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goestoeleven
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Re: Suggestions on a good starter Rev

Postby goestoeleven » Tue, Oct 09 2012, 08:05 PM

I agree with Jynx - I'd stick the the 1.5 size. The 2's are smaller, and smaller = faster/twitchier, which is not the best for learning. Plus, if he's going to fly team or in any groups, almost all the group flying is on 1.5 size sails. . . . it's OK to get an SLE kite, as long as you steer clear of the SLE leading edge. It's big, heavy, and (relatively) indestructible, but the thinner spars (i.e. 3 wraps or similar) are far more common and fly better (according to most experienced pilots). Plus it's pretty unlikely that you'll bust a spar even if it's lighter weight (i.e. 3wraps being the most common thinner spar). That said, if you end up with a good deal on an SLE with the heavier leading edge, you can always reframe it in something else.

Don't forget . . . you'll need lines & handles as well. I know a guy from Kankakee who makes a mean set of snagless handles . . . and don't forget, Big Mike on this forum also sells Revs and line sets, if you are considering new. If you are set on used (and BTW, the majority of my collection is used, so I clearly think it's a good way to go), then the forums (and/or certain club members who have too many kites PM me) are the way to go as long as you have patience . . . . or you can call a club fly some weekend and borrow our kites :-D :up: . . . . I'm only about 1/2 hour from you.

KiteVoice - the SLE leading edge is quite stiff and heavy, which (IMHO) makes learning more difficult for a couple reasons. One, the kite is heavier so it's harder to launch & keep in the air in lighter / inconsistent winds (welcome to the midwest). Second, the stiffness of the spar makes it more responsive to inputs, which may actually be detrimental to beginners. Beginners have a tendency to overdo the handle inputs, which the SLE leading edge more fully transmits to the kite. The thinner leading edges flex a bit, and this means (for better and worse, depending on the situation), there's a bit of forgiveness in the LE. On the plus side, you could drive nails with the SLE leading edge or use it for tomato stakes, so you can bang it into the ground without worrying. To add to the confusion, older versions of the "SLE 1.5" were available or could be reframed with the lighter frame so an "SLE" kite might be a 1.5 without the SLE leading edge. An EXP is the same size and shape as the 1.5 or 1.5 SLE or the 1.5 B-series, and the spars are interchangeable. Think of it as the VW vs. Audi. Same manufacturer . . . some shared, some different components, and different engine tuning. Both get you where you want to go. It has a different panel layout, different fabric (not as "stiff"), a less expensive bridle, and "no label" spars (that are essentially 3 wrap spars). Personally, even though the EXP is less expensive, I enjoy flying mine, and I fly it more often these days when I need a full sail than my original (well used) 1.5 SLE (which I reframed in 3 wrap LE).

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goestoeleven
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Re: Suggestions on a good starter Rev

Postby goestoeleven » Tue, Oct 09 2012, 08:28 PM

. . . oh yeah . . . and . . . while I'm sure this one is for Brendan . . . . this will be your gateway rev . . . better plan your kite budget around more than one of everything . . . . :twisted:

A rev lesson leads to desire, desire leads to a purchase, a purchase leads to addiction, and addiction leads to the dark side . . . . maybe I need to change my screen name to DarthKite :twisted:

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Re: Suggestions on a good starter Rev

Postby Trigger » Tue, Oct 09 2012, 09:09 PM

i am calling....b...s!

enjoy the hunt for your new REV

i went with the 1.5b because of the 2 frames. I did just get another frame from another manufacturer that you know well....JT... for half the price. my first flight was really nice in higher winds than the race frame was comfortable in.

I have come across really high winds lately...15-22mph and am looking for a full vent. "desire leads to purchase leads to ADDICTION" :)

don't worry, i have still flown the duals. in fact the little jazz gets fly time in these high winds!

TMadz
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Re: Suggestions on a good starter Rev

Postby TMadz » Wed, Oct 10 2012, 08:42 AM

High School soccer is ending soon and I want him to keep going outside until winter or spring soccer starts. The reason I asked about sail was because of the higher winds were having. I want him to be able to fly it in all weather. He won't need to worry about summer winds until next July hopefully. At the least he can run around the field trying to lift it in thermals.

I haven't had time to fly anything lately. My business is demanding more and more of my time and I don't know when I'll be able to fly regularly. That doesn't stop me from longing after kites though. Steve, after you log your kite cache maybe you'll want to part with some. I saw Kitevoices photos and I was wondering if those DC's were yours beside what you put up on Sunday. I need want a DC. I'm starting to get too much laundry for my sled and want to try something different. Maybe some of that 5 miles of line you have too. You certainly need cash to fund your habit hobby.

I'll look for an EXP or nicer 1.5. This is going to be for Christmas so I have plenty of time. I talked to Mikey about handles so if I come up short I know where to get line and a set of handles. I guess the next question is what length of handles. 11"? 13"? 15"? If it doesn't work out for him, I know that I can at least resell it, but it's such a nice hobby I would hate part with it. It's not like the wind and the outdoors is going away. Someone can enjoy it.
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KiteVoice
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Re: Suggestions on a good starter Rev

Postby KiteVoice » Wed, Oct 10 2012, 11:37 AM

TMadz wrote:I guess the next question is what length of handles. 11"? 13"? 15"?


What? There are different handles, too? Man, how does one keep all these Rev options form making one's head spin?
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KiteVoice
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Re: Suggestions on a good starter Rev

Postby KiteVoice » Wed, Oct 10 2012, 11:39 AM

goestoeleven wrote:KiteVoice - the SLE leading edge is quite stiff and heavy, which (IMHO) makes learning more difficult for a couple reasons. (etc. etc.)


Thanks, 11, very helpful stuff. A newb (like me) might otherwise assume that the 1.5 SLE is a better kite because it's more expensive than the EXP.
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KiteVoice
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Re: Suggestions on a good starter Rev

Postby KiteVoice » Wed, Oct 10 2012, 11:41 AM

goestoeleven wrote:(and/or certain club members who have too many kites PM me)


:-) "too many kites" might just have been the understatement of the year!
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goestoeleven
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Re: Suggestions on a good starter Rev

Postby goestoeleven » Wed, Oct 10 2012, 01:00 PM

I enjoy flying mine, and I don't see a huge difference between it and a "standard" for inexperienced flyers, but I'm only two years into flying revs. IMHO, when starting out, I think experience and tuning the brake settings on the handle leaders will make a much larger difference in flight as you get started than which model you choose. Venting also makes a huge difference in different wind conditions. Experience is probably the biggest factor in your ability to keep a particular sail in the air - there are guys who can fly a full vent in light winds that challenge me on a full sail with light spars (although I'm working on it). So experience and tuning matters more than the sail you are flying on any given day - whether EXP or standard.

One thing to keep in mind . . . there are some folks who are not enamored with the EXP. The majority of more experienced fliers tend to go with the 1.5 ($$), 1.5 b-series ($$$), or b-pro ($$$$) instead of the EXP ($). The EXP also only comes in full sail / no venting options. If looks matter to you, the EXP is a VW flying in the same space as Audi and Porsche. If you plan to get better / matched set of kites later, you should probably look into getting a 1.5 standard. Would I like a B-Pro or a Masterpiece? Yes. Have I ponied up the cash for those kites? No. I get just as much enjoyment flying my EXP as my other kites. BTW, my EXP was bought used in almost-new condition. Patience is your wallet's best friend (but kite addiction is NOT ;)).

Oh . . . this may be sacrilege, but handle length won't matter until you get a bit of experience . . . and then it may not matter anyway, because you'll be able to fly anything with any set of handles 8-) . Again, IMHO, snagless is more important than length of handle - that said, most experienced flyers are on 13in handles. Because I am dumb and lazy, I use whatever handles are attached to the line set I want to use . . . rather than always using Mikey's nice snagless ones. Buying used revs led to a bag full of random handles, and it takes me less time to set up if I leave the handles on the line sets. I try to have nice line sets matched with nice handles, but sometimes I end up with lesser used lengths on random handles. And then there are the days when the wind is random, so I'll set up two or three kites with different venting and line lengths to keep flying when the wind changes, so I have different handles all the time. You'll want the handle leaders to be tuneable, so if they don't come with a leader to adjust the brake setting, that's the first modification you'll want to do immediately.

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KiteVoice
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Re: Suggestions on a good starter Rev

Postby KiteVoice » Wed, Oct 10 2012, 01:18 PM

goestoeleven wrote:IMHO, snagless is more important than length of handle ...


Snagless? You mean handles come in both multiple sizes and with and without snags? Isn't a snag a bad thing? If so, why does anyone make a handle that snags?

Perhaps someone needs to create a "Rev. Newb FAQ" for all this info!
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Re: Suggestions on a good starter Rev

Postby Trigger » Wed, Oct 10 2012, 01:29 PM

Ones "DUMB AND LAZY" is anothers BRILLIANT!

Get multiple kites, with mult handles and lines...... I am going to try that! THANKS!

Also... learn to fly what is available...... you mean anyone can do that?!? :-)

I now have a goal to strive for!

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Jynx
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Re: Suggestions on a good starter Rev

Postby Jynx » Wed, Oct 10 2012, 03:04 PM

KiteVoice wrote:
goestoeleven wrote:IMHO, snagless is more important than length of handle ...


Snagless? You mean handles come in both multiple sizes and with and without snags? Isn't a snag a bad thing? If so, why does anyone make a handle that snags?

Perhaps someone needs to create a "Rev. Newb FAQ" for all this info!


Simplifying the handle issue...

I suggest the 13" handles (there are 11", 13", and 15") The 11" are a bit short and more difficult in maneuvering the kite, the 15" seem to get in the way when you're near others, etc. ...MOST Rev flyers use 13" and generally are the handles that come with the kite.

Whatever handles you get... There is a simple way to switch them to no-snag handles! Send me you address and I'll be happy to send you a packet which has the instructions, photos, and parts to do so (no charge)... it also explains how to 'knot' your leader-lines (on the handles) so you can adjust your kite lines (length) depending on wind conditions (a BIG help in control).
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TMadz
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Re: Suggestions on a good starter Rev

Postby TMadz » Wed, Oct 10 2012, 06:16 PM

Thanks gang. Lots of valuable information. I didn't know which length was standard. I know how to do the leaders, but I didn't know about the snagless handles. That'll be worth it to convert them. Thanks Jynx.

Again, this kite'll be for my son so he's going to have to learn setup, takedown and basic care. I'm kind of nuts about properly taking down and packing my kites. I know proper care saves time in the long run. He's seen and heard me go on about no shortcuts and doing a job correctly. There's no telling if he's going to take to this long term. If he keeps asking at least I'll know he's interested.

Steve, I told him if he's still interested I would see what I could do about scheduling a local fall club fly. I have huge wide open field nearby that everyone would have more than enough room to fly on. SLK's dualies and Rev's
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makatakam
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Re: Suggestions on a good starter Rev

Postby makatakam » Wed, Oct 10 2012, 07:20 PM

Hi, just thought I'd throw in my two cents' worth.

I have noticed this year that the new flyers I have helped had very little problem with control right off the bat, and I just realized that I had given them my 11" handles that were attached to the kites I was flying at the time. I believe the shorter handles lessen the input possible to give the kite, and so it's less likely that a novice flyer can "overcontrol" the kite.

I have noticed that I have a much harder time doing flic-flacs and axels with the shorter handles.

Would any of our more-experienced flyers concur with this?
MARK

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Trigger
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Re: Suggestions on a good starter Rev

Postby Trigger » Sun, Oct 14 2012, 07:44 PM

+1 for Jynxs' REVer "CRACK BAG"

haven't installed it yet but i think i will this week

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Mike
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Re: Suggestions on a good starter Rev

Postby Mike » Mon, Oct 15 2012, 12:22 PM

makatakam wrote:...

I have noticed that I have a much harder time doing flic-flacs and axels with the shorter handles.

Would any of our more-experienced flyers concur with this?


Absolutely. Eg., long handles and a supersonic will do flic-flacs super easy.

I'm coming in late on this, but the EXP is a great kite and it's very similar to the current version of the EXP. Both are the same shape and have nylon sails.


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