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Revolution reflex?

Posted: Tue, Jan 12 2016, 07:33 PM
by basicbill
What do you reckon this is all about?

https://youtu.be/pcBAb647u0s

Bill

Re: Revolution reflex?

Posted: Tue, Jan 12 2016, 10:12 PM
by makatakam
I'm guessing a three-dimensional sail that will also shape-shift to a small extent to adjust for force variables in the wind. I've got a similar project underway, but Rev's design appears to be light years beyond what I'm doing.

Re: Revolution reflex?

Posted: Wed, Jan 20 2016, 06:19 AM
by basicbill
Latest teaser video. There's an kite industry show soon I believe.

https://youtu.be/fY-UcY7YPHo

Bill

Re: Revolution reflex?

Posted: Wed, Jan 20 2016, 08:34 PM
by goestoeleven
Huh. Maybe we'll know after the industry trade show. The last couple seconds looked like there was flex in the vertical spar near the leading edge. Not sure I know what that would do to flight characteristics. Presumably, it might flex when you powered up the sail (or maybe when you hit the brakes) to give it a bit more "oomph" or pop or stop. I will have to think about this . . . and what flying style would benefit.

Re: Revolution reflex?

Posted: Wed, Jan 27 2016, 10:56 AM
by quaa714
after speaking to David at TI he told me there is a small "spring" or some such thing that "reflexes" in light to no wind so that the sail basically flattens out and floats until wind becomes more apparent.
Make sense?

Re: Revolution reflex?

Posted: Wed, Jan 27 2016, 11:57 AM
by goestoeleven
I think I'll need to see it in action .....

Re: Revolution reflex?

Posted: Wed, Jan 27 2016, 08:12 PM
by makatakam
quaa714 wrote:after speaking to David at TI he told me there is a small "spring" or some such thing that "reflexes" in light to no wind so that the sail basically flattens out and floats until wind becomes more apparent.
Make sense?


Actually, the opposite of what you said would make sense: something to give the sail the classic "loaded" shape to give it lift, that would ease off towards normal as sail/wind pressure increases. I have played with this in some of my designs, but instead of making it variable depending on sail pressure, making it a permanently three-dimensional sail.

Re: Revolution reflex?

Posted: Thu, Jan 28 2016, 06:07 PM
by Mike
Sounds like Mark is describing an Airbow. A short lived quad kite.

Re: Revolution reflex?

Posted: Sat, Feb 13 2016, 07:22 PM
by goestoeleven
And . . . here's a little something from the field. San Diego Kite Club had a few pictures up on FB, and here's the one I found most interesting:

rev reflex closeup.jpg
rev reflex closeup.jpg (95.53 KiB) Viewed 2920 times


They (or maybe Hadzicki) had a very short video of a face down, leading edge forward relaunch, which is pretty much impossible with the standard sails. I think the spring is just enough that it raises the leading edge, and you can get some air underneath without having to spin the kite around.

It's an interesting (and very simple) idea. Can't say that I'm a fan of the sail graphics, but maybe they will grow on me.

Re: Revolution reflex?

Posted: Sat, Feb 13 2016, 08:49 PM
by basicbill
That's it? Other than a new sail size from what I understand. I suppose simple is good.

Re: Revolution reflex?

Posted: Sun, Feb 14 2016, 11:30 AM
by makatakam
If that's all that wire does, then it's over-kill. You can achieve the face-down launch using a section of pool-noodle or pipe insulation.

Re: Revolution reflex?

Posted: Sun, Feb 14 2016, 02:51 PM
by Mike
If 180GO! doesn't get one before then, I'll play with one in Huntington Beach and take some more photos.

Re: Revolution reflex?

Posted: Sat, Mar 12 2016, 10:47 PM
by Jeff
Mike and I flew the Reflex today at Kite Party. It was fun to fly in low winds in the morning. I was a bit skeptical, but that little push forward on the sail does some interesting things. We had a regular 1.5 and the Reflex set up source by side.

It expands the window in all directions. The kite really floats at the edges. You can't bow tie it in reverse, even driving it fast. No pull and catch from the top of the window. It won't fall. And if there's even a slight breeze, you can't make it fall down on its face on the ground. If it is laying down facing you, you can still launch it.

It uses 5/16 spars so that they're more rigid. Also, they're a couple inches longer than the 1.5 spars. So the kite is a little bigger. It feels like a Zen, but I like it better than the Zen.

I'll post a couple videos when I get a chance...

Re: Revolution reflex?

Posted: Sat, Mar 12 2016, 10:56 PM
by Jeff

Re: Revolution reflex?

Posted: Sat, Mar 12 2016, 11:10 PM
by Jeff

Re: Revolution reflex?

Posted: Sun, Mar 13 2016, 07:41 AM
by basicbill
Thanks for the videos guys.

So is this a Rev for folks just starting out? The face down launch is nice, but after a short while most of us know how to land so that the kite is upright. Except for those light wind days when it sometimes falls over. (And I've watched a bunch of you better flyers reset the kite by doing that shuffle back thingy from the handles after it has fallen face down. Even I can do it occasionally.)

Does it do anything a whole bunch better than what we have now?

Safe travels back home.

Bill

Re: Revolution reflex?

Posted: Sun, Mar 13 2016, 09:50 AM
by Mike
OK, I was pretty skeptical. I was watching the kite, and the spring in the back, while someone else flew. The spring is supposed to keep a curve in the sail, but it didn't seem to be doing anything--I could see the sail pressed against the spar most all of the time.

The winds were light, but not super low. You could fly a 1.5 without having do a lot of floaty expert type moves. Most good fliers could fly a 1.5 in the winds--you didn't have be expert. Being Huntington Beach, the winds were steady and consistent direction.

Then I stopped watching and flew a Reflex myself.
Since the kite is sized a bit larger than a 1.5, it has a bit of heavier feel to it. Like a Zen or Rev 1. It was slower and also had some of that extra forward momentum that made it a bit harder to do sharp turns.
If found that off-putting at first.
Then we attached longer leaders and put some more brake on it, and the momentum thing was no longer a problem.
The wind window felt larger, but I was wondering if that was just the fact that the window is usually larger in light winds.

So I flew the reflex for several minutes and the then switched to a 1.5.

The 1.5 immediately felt faster, but...
Wow. The Reflex had a *much* larger wind window, and was it easer to fly in light winds. The Reflex would almost fly up and over my head, and way out to the sides of the window. The floats were fun too.

I never connected to the Zen and 1 feels too much like a truck to me. The Reflex is better than both of those, and I liked it quite a bit.

Yes, I could fly the 1.5 in the same winds, but the Reflex was easier and with the larger window you could do more. It was just more fun.

A couple more thoughts before I head out to the beach...

As Jeff said, you can't do a catch and throw. If you pull on the top lines, it starts towards you, and then turns and floats away.
You can still do the throw part. It works a bit differently, you don't have to put a slight spin on it as you do with a 1.5, you just throw it straight out. But I didn't play with that very much.

We then tried flying it without the spring attached. Now you could do that catch and throw, but the wind window was reduced. It flew more like a Zen.
So the spring really did do something.

I didn't fly it when the wind picked up. Lolly didn't have it out. But I think it's plenty strong enough to fly in higher winds. Rev is too cautious with their recommendations. After all, I flew a 1.5 on diamond rods until we all switched to full vents.

The kite isn't in production yet, but should be in a few weeks.

When I flew a Zen, I thought it didn't do anything I couldn't already to with a 1.5 and didn't add much to my experience.
I don't feel that way with the Reflex. I like it. If they have it out again this morning, I'll try it again and update y'all with any new thoughts.

Re: Revolution reflex?

Posted: Sun, Mar 13 2016, 12:29 PM
by Mike
image.jpeg
image.jpeg (159.47 KiB) Viewed 2618 times


I flew a 1.5 with diamond rods to the edges of the window. Jeff stood my side and drew lines in the sand so we could get a rough measurement of the window width.
Did the same with the Reflex.
Measured the angles with a protractor app.
The Reflex was close to 180°
The 1.5 was about 140°

Re: Revolution reflex?

Posted: Sun, Mar 13 2016, 03:43 PM
by goestoeleven
Thanks for the thoughtful review Mike. It sounds like a small innovation that makes a bigger difference than you expected, and you've flown pretty much everything.

It will be interesting to try one once they get into production.

Re: Revolution reflex?

Posted: Sun, Mar 13 2016, 08:06 PM
by Jeff
The reflex is an only child he's waiting by the park.
The reflex is in charge of finding treasure in the dark.
And watching over lucky clover isn't that bizarre?
Every little thing the reflex does
Leaves you answered with a question mark.