Page 1 of 2

Revolution frame opinions

Posted: Wed, Jul 10 2013, 08:50 AM
by swannie
Hi all,

I'm thinking of getting a set of green or black race rods for my 1.5's (I have a B series and an SLE). I was looking at this post, here, which detailed the various frame weights. I *think* I'm mostly interested in lighter wind use, but I notice that even the black ones are heavier then a 2 wrap frame, which means I already have options in lighter wind, and I don't think I'm advanced enough in my skill to where I'd be concerned about breaking a frame... or maybe that works the opposite way. :)

So, I realize that the answer here is "What problem are you trying to solve?" and/or "What are your goals?" but I guess I'm mostly interested in what situations you guys use them in and some general opinions of them vs. the stock frames (and green vs. black). For instance, I've read elsewhere that the green frame is a lot "springier" then a normal 3 wrap. I also saw some crazy picture where someone had it bent in almost a half-circle.... :)

Thanks!
Swannie

P.S. ... Not to thread-jack my own post but my comment above about breaking a frame made me think ... when have you guys broken frames? Can it happen in flight? From a crash (I'd think this is most likely)? They seem pretty tough, so I'm surprised that they can ever break. :)

Re: Revolution frame opinions

Posted: Wed, Jul 10 2013, 01:49 PM
by Mike
Hi Swannie,
I've been flying Revs since forever, and I use standard 2 wrap and 3 wrap spars. I've lent my kite to hundreds of beginners to learn to fly and I've never had one of those spars break. Even in crashes.
I've also flown on professional kite teams and the only spars I've had break there have been Race spars. And they've broken in flight.

However, that's just my opinion and my flying style. Other people will surely feel differently...

BTW, I don't know if you have a vented kite, but that's more important than the different spars.

Re: Revolution frame opinions

Posted: Wed, Jul 10 2013, 07:49 PM
by makatakam
If you are into fishing, and know what the difference is among slow, medium and fast actions in fishing rods, then you would say standard rods are slow action, race rods are medium to fast. Lighter weight, faster return time from bowed to straight.

Confused? It only gets worse when you add other variables like line weight and sail material and weight, but as you gain experience/flying time, it will begin to start making sense. Just remember, "all things come to those who wait".

Re: Revolution frame opinions

Posted: Thu, Jul 11 2013, 07:53 AM
by goestoeleven
I am going to agree with mike. I've been flying for about three years, and I've broken 1 race rod -and I don't actually know that it broke since it popped out of the kite into Lake Michigan, so I never got it back. I hardly pay attention any longer, but I mostly fly two and three wrap. I fly black rods in my EXP. Mike might be ready to point out that my info may be suspect since I was flying the other day with a mismatched line set . . . but i just like to fly and try to adjust my flying to the kite, rather than the other way around.

I think practice makes a bigger difference than which rods are in the kite.

P.S. Mike is right about a vented if you intend to fly in higher winds.

Re: Revolution frame opinions

Posted: Thu, Jul 11 2013, 08:19 AM
by swannie
Thanks for the input everyone. It's interesting that the input here seems the exact opposite of what I was reading on the Rev forums, namely that the green race rods were indestructible when people were actually making attempts to break them. I guess it all comes down to the usage (and breakage) scenario. If I make it to a club fly at some point maybe I'll try and borrow someone's race rods and take 'em for a spin. The extra "springiness" still has me intrigued. Or, maybe I'll take that money and apply it to a B-Series Pro ... or maybe a B2 ... or, the light winds I had when visiting Michigan last weekend had me thinking about a Zen ... or ... or, I wish they'd re-release their kite bags!! :)

As long as we're talking about frames, has anyone tried a travel frame yet? I contacted Lolly and she said that she could sell me the "Travel Rev Tote" sans sail (so just the travel bag and the frame). From my reading it's basically a standard 3-wrap frame, but cut into smaller pieces. I'd think that the extra pieces required would change the way the frame behaves somewhat?

Re: Revolution frame opinions

Posted: Thu, Jul 11 2013, 08:43 AM
by goestoeleven
FWIW, I made my own (very inexpensive) travel frame using factory 2nds from another rod manufacturer . . . I used to travel quite a bit; not so much lately . . .

You are welcome to try anything I have at a club fly.

P.S. - the black rods in my EXP are the ones that come with it standard (they are not race rods).

Re: Revolution frame opinions

Posted: Thu, Jul 11 2013, 11:18 AM
by cadguy
Hello Swannie, I have broken 2 wrap vertical spars when a gust hit right when I did a hard pull. Now most of flying is on 3 wraps, any sail...std,mid-vent,full-vent. Black race rods are just a bit lighter than 3 wraps, but not noticeable. I have not used the green rods.

go fly,
David

Re: Revolution frame opinions

Posted: Thu, Jul 11 2013, 08:45 PM
by Mike
Btw, the unmarked rods in the EXP are 3 wraps.
And the rods that broke were the Black race rods. I haven't spent much time with the greens and can't offer an opinion.

Re: Revolution frame opinions

Posted: Thu, Jul 11 2013, 09:30 PM
by goestoeleven
Mike wrote:Btw, the unmarked rods in the EXP are 3 wraps.


I agree. I should have said that earlier (but I think I was answering from my phone).

Re: Revolution frame opinions

Posted: Fri, Jul 12 2013, 09:32 PM
by Shari
I have a set of 2, 3, 4, Race, Green and a set of SPLs (not sure if these are even sold) I would be more than happy to try any of them at a club fly. I bought a new custom standard sail and I prefer it with the 3 wrap. I had a bit of a flutter in the sail with the race frame in it, the 3 wrap gets rid of it. I love the race frames in my full vent and extra vent. Each user and kite is different, it is only what you prefer in my opinion. I recommend for team flying 3 wraps, looks best for groups, kites look all around more crisp in the sky.

Re: Revolution frame opinions

Posted: Fri, Jul 12 2013, 10:02 PM
by Darkspark
I share a kite bag with Shari so I have flown with every spar rev makes. The green rods are industructable. But so are the rest more or less. I have flown a team kite with 2 wraps in it that were bowing so hard from heavy unexpected gusts that they nearly made a "u". I prefer race rods in light loading situations. Something about how they "snap". But for all intensive purposes I could live with three wraps and nothing else. I don't care for the flimsy feeling that two wraps give, and have never needed 4 wraps. My take, buy more kites! Save worrying about frames till you have more kites. And if you do travel the travel frame and bag is nice. But if you buy 5 extra ferrules you can make a travel frame out of any set. All it does is cut every rod in two. 10 pieces in place of 5. The kit does come with two spares which is nice.

I really think all the variants of race frames were made so kiters have something to debate.

Re: Revolution frame opinions

Posted: Fri, Jul 12 2013, 10:40 PM
by Jeepster
Darkspark wrote:... I really think all the variants of race frames were made so kiters have something to debate.


Now that's funny!!

Kiters will argue about everything ... which spectra line is best, which kite is best, which color is best, which fabric, where to eat, when to eat, what to drink, when to drink, when to meet, where to meet, when to quit ... simply everything. So, don't single out race rods as contributing any significant increase in the level of debate.

Now personally, I like Hypalon for my handles, but you and my son like EVA ... so we can't even agree on that!!!!

Cheers,
Tom

Re: Revolution frame opinions

Posted: Fri, Jul 12 2013, 10:56 PM
by goestoeleven
Um . . . I think we can all agree that we LOVE flying kites! Can't we all just get along?

Re: Revolution frame opinions

Posted: Sat, Jul 13 2013, 07:08 AM
by swannie
LOL ... I'm glad I could start such a lively debate! :)

Now everyone hope for nice winds on Lake Michigan for me today ... The forecast doesn't look favorable so far. :)

Thanks for everyone's input!

Re: Revolution frame opinions

Posted: Sat, Jul 13 2013, 08:46 AM
by Shari
swannie....trust me....it's our pleasure. :)

Re: Revolution frame opinions

Posted: Wed, Sep 04 2013, 11:23 PM
by Nick
I figured I would throw my thought in on spars fly with 3 wrap in stranded kite and a nice stiff 4 wrap in your vented kite and you will be just fine.


Its not so much about spars and weight as it is about learning to just fly no matter what the wind. Low wind flying is where most people want to be better. The best way to learn to fly in it is get with someone who can do it Have that person teach you some. Then practice some low wind Technics. :-)

Re: Revolution frame opinions

Posted: Fri, Sep 13 2013, 07:15 PM
by swannie
Has anyone tried these new-fangled "Diamond rods" I've been reading about on the Rev forum?

Re: Revolution frame opinions

Posted: Fri, Sep 13 2013, 07:27 PM
by Mike
I haven't tried them. I should have found some to try at WSIKF, but I didn't think of it at the time

Re: Revolution frame opinions

Posted: Fri, Sep 13 2013, 08:08 PM
by swannie
I'm thinking if ordering a set ... If I get them by Friday I'll bring then with to the dunes. :)

Re: Revolution frame opinions

Posted: Fri, Sep 13 2013, 11:57 PM
by Jynx
Heard only great things about them!
I got a set (for light winds)... Haven't had the chance to test them out as yet... I'll bring them to the retreat!