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Handle Adjustment Knots

Posted: Sun, Jan 27 2008, 09:50 PM
by Mike
Here's a couple photos of the adjustment knots found on iQuads handles and on the B-Series handles.
With the iQuad handles, I usually fly at one knot from the end on the top lines. Several of the fliers in iQuad use the last knot.

Re: Handle Adjustment Knots

Posted: Mon, Jan 28 2008, 07:51 AM
by Chris
I assume they fly on equal length lines (top and bottom)?

Re: Handle Adjustment Knots

Posted: Mon, Jan 28 2008, 07:53 AM
by Mike
Yup, all 4 lines are 120' long.

Re: Handle Adjustment Knots

Posted: Mon, Jan 28 2008, 09:02 AM
by Mike
Some info for folks new to adjustment knots on handles.
If you bought a B-series kite you'll have the handles with knots on them already.

If you want to make your own:
The exact spacing between knots isn't crucial--you don't have to match what is shown in the photo. Anywhere from an inch to 1 1/2" between knots is fine.
What is crucial is that each pair of adjustment lines match very closely. You want the left and right sides to be the same or your kite will fly crooked!
Use any non-stretchy line. I prefer bridle line. (It's called that at kite stores)
You can double the line and larkshead it onto the handles, like in the photos above, or use a single line like I do:

Re: Handle Adjustment Knots

Posted: Mon, Jan 28 2008, 09:58 AM
by Mike
The goal with the knots is to change relative length of the top and bottom flying lines.
Usually, the top lines are attached at knots further away from the the handles than the bottom lines. This adds more "brake" to your flying.

I almost always fly with the knots in the same position. However, in strong winds I'll add more brake, and in very light winds I may fly with less brake.

Re: Handle Adjustment Knots

Posted: Mon, Jan 28 2008, 12:46 PM
by Chris
Here is the side by side comparison of the iquad style handles (top), and the stock B series (bottom). Notice the amount of brake iquad flys with.

Both sets of handles are EXACTLY the same (SUL).

Image

Re: Handle Adjustment Knots

Posted: Mon, Jan 28 2008, 01:43 PM
by Mike
Looking at the first photo in this post....
iQuad uses the last knot on the bottom lines.
On iQuad handles, with lines on the last knot on top, the brake lines are 8.25" - 2" = 6.25" shorter
On B-Series handles with lines on the last knot on top, and on the closest knot on the bottom we have: 6"-1" = 5"

But I usually fly the iQuad handles at the second knot, so its 7.5"-2"= 5.5"
That's pretty close to the max reach of the B-Series handles (last knot on top, closest knot on the bottom)

Re: Handle Adjustment Knots

Posted: Tue, Jan 29 2008, 06:14 AM
by Mike
Lurkers, I can see that at least 16 people have viewed this post, but only Chris has responded. Thanks Chris. The rest of you, go ahead and respond!

Have you tried flying with more brake? Is it crazy? Too hard? You like it? Easier? Questions? Confused?
Newbies and more experienced fliers, respond with your experiences, I'd like to know how people feel about flying with more brake.

Re: Handle Adjustment Knots

Posted: Tue, Jan 29 2008, 09:11 AM
by Chris
I don't like flying with a lot of brake, but I am going to try using the iquad setup. I am sure that has a lot to do with the control and presicion they show in their routines (not counting the hours and days of practice!)

The biggest reason I don't like using a lot of brake, is because it makes the kite VERY sensitive to reverse inputs.

Re: Handle Adjustment Knots

Posted: Tue, Jan 29 2008, 10:02 AM
by Jeff
Mike wrote:Lurkers, I can see that at least 16 people have viewed this post, but only Chris has responded. Thanks Chris. The rest of you, go ahead and respond!


I don't really have much to add. My handles aren't like either of those. They are equal length tails on top and bottom, each with 4 adjustment knots. I've been flying with the bottom lines just an inch or so shorter than the top. I haven't really experimented with other settings.

Re: Handle Adjustment Knots

Posted: Tue, Jan 29 2008, 11:40 AM
by brownssl
i only try to keep the thing in the air with out crashing i need alot of help i havent flew the rev that much just a newbe at it

Re: Handle Adjustment Knots

Posted: Tue, Jan 29 2008, 04:21 PM
by Mike
Thanks for the responses.
If by trying to keep the thing in the air means that it tends to fly up and over to one side and then crash :-D , you might try adding some brake. Try a couple inches and see if that helps. Also make sure your hands are down in front of you and not up above your shoulders.

If you are already keeping the kite in the air, adding more brake can help in holding upside down hovers and speed control. Without the brake it's easier to over-steer and fall out of the sky.

It will seem a bit strange at first, but try it for at least 15 minutes.

Re: Handle Adjustment Knots

Posted: Tue, Jan 29 2008, 10:12 PM
by Frodos Majik
Myself, I try to use the knots on top one or two in and on the bottom the line is set to the closes to the handle. It seem to work for me rather well.
Like Mike said in more for light winds and out more for stronger winds on the top lines. :up:

Re: Handle Adjustment Knots

Posted: Wed, Jan 30 2008, 09:09 AM
by Mike
Assuming B-Series handles, Ken is flying with the top lines at 4.5" and the bottom at 1", giving a 3.5" difference for brake. We could also call it 3.5" of reverse.

Keep in mind that the SLE factory handles are set with top and bottom at the same length. Any changes you make with knots are so that there is a difference between the top and bottom. It doesn't matter where the top or bottom are changed, it's the difference that matters.

I used to have long top lines without any knots, and long bottom lines with knots. All my adjustments were made with the bottom knots. I would just bring in the bottom lines closer to the handles for more brake.

Re: Handle Adjustment Knots

Posted: Wed, Jan 30 2008, 09:21 AM
by Mike
Different fliers fly with different amounts of brake/reverse. More brake should not be considered more macho!

Dave Shenkman, the flier in Revolution's Advanced Flying video, flies with about 1" of brake and I've seen him use his rev to take someone hat off their head and fly away with it.

The last time I saw Lolly of Revolution fly, she was flying with forward. Her top lines were shorter than her bottom lines. She had a kind of flowing, swoopy style.

So, trying to keep this neutral and not get into a more brake is better thing, I think it would be interesting to see how much brake various fliers use.

I tend to fly with about 5 1/2".
John Barresi seems to fly with 5 1/2" to 6 1/4"

Re: Handle Adjustment Knots

Posted: Wed, Jan 30 2008, 12:33 PM
by Frodos Majik
I dont know what the B handle are in size (length) to the Super Blast handles, but I am using the blast handles. Because doent the length of the handles also add to the mix?

Re: Handle Adjustment Knots

Posted: Wed, Jan 30 2008, 01:03 PM
by Jeff
Frodos Majik wrote:I dont know what the B handle are in size (length) to the Super Blast handles, but I am using the blast handles. Because doent the length of the handles also add to the mix?

At a "neutral" position or angle of the handles, the amount of brake should be just what you have it set at, but as you fly things will be different. With longer handles, smaller changes of angle will produce larger changes in the angle of the sail. How much of a difference though...? I have no idea. I don't know how significant the difference is.

Re: Handle Adjustment Knots

Posted: Wed, Jan 30 2008, 03:08 PM
by Chris
I only use the SUL handles. I really don't like the shorter handles, I get a more responsive feel from the longer set.

Re: Handle Adjustment Knots

Posted: Wed, Jan 30 2008, 03:56 PM
by Mike
Frodos Majik wrote:I dont know what the B handle are in size (length) to the Super Blast handles

My blast handles are the same size as the B-Series handles. I don't know what your custom knot spacing is though.

Re: Handle Adjustment Knots

Posted: Wed, Jan 30 2008, 06:32 PM
by Frodos Majik
The knot spacing is one inch apart for the top. The two knots on the bottom have half inch spacing.

I try to use the knots on top one or two in

When I said that I meant from the outer knots. For the most part it is set at either the outer knot or one in, unless light winds. So I would think that my setting would be closer to Mikes and iQuad, then stated earlier?