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Re: Aug 22 or 23 quick fly

Posted: Sun, Aug 23 2015, 02:04 PM
by swannie
I just showed up here. So lonely. :)

Re: Aug 22 or 23 quick fly

Posted: Sun, Aug 23 2015, 02:08 PM
by basicbill
Where is here? St Charles?

Bill

Re: Aug 22 or 23 quick fly

Posted: Sun, Aug 23 2015, 02:41 PM
by basicbill
Found him at St Charles.

Bill

Re: Aug 22 or 23 quick fly

Posted: Sun, Aug 23 2015, 03:46 PM
by swannie
So did "The Fuzz" ... But we stood our ground. :)

Re: Aug 22 or 23 quick fly

Posted: Sun, Aug 23 2015, 04:21 PM
by basicbill
swannie wrote:So did "The Fuzz" ... But we stood our ground. :)


Since I'm a St. Charles taxpayer I will try to follow up on this with the Park District. When I spoke with one of the supervisors last year there was no mention of an issue. From what I gathered from that conversation was that there are soccer clubs paying for upkeep of the fields.

The young man today said something about an Park "ordinance." Not a part of the rules explicitly. Which doesn't make much sense to me. You could tell he wasn't too comfortable with the conversation. Just doing his job. He said he would have someone else come over to talk to us. That someone did eventually have a conversation with him out of our hearing. Afterward the young man just gave us a wave. Like nothing else was going to come of it. Whether he was told he was mistaken or it was determined it was not worth making a fuss over. Brian and I don't know.

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Bill

Re: Aug 22 or 23 quick fly

Posted: Sun, Aug 23 2015, 06:03 PM
by makatakam
Glad you guys got to fly and maybe even got the kite issue straightened out with the Park District personnel. Sorry about my post; I could have been more specific about what had happened. Just needed to rant, I guess. So, is it now ok to fly at East Side?

I flew today with Karl (Kitemeister) at Busse from 2:00 pm until 4:00 pm. Didn't check the forum to see if anyone else was going to fly. It was pretty much a spur of the moment deal; he called, we went. Team "Chicago Fire" was at Busse Woods, for a practice session, and we spoke with them for a while. They will be at KOLM in Two Rivers, WI, Labor Day weekend, and at MOTS in Milwaukee the following weekend, and they are looking forward to seeing some of us IKERs there. Click on calendar to see when and where.

Both of these fests are 2-day events, and a splendid show of all types of kites. Team 180GO! will be at KOLM again this to repeat and beat last year's most excellent performance. Go to their website to see some of last year's action.

Re: Aug 22 or 23 quick fly

Posted: Mon, Aug 24 2015, 11:02 AM
by TMadz
basicbill wrote:
swannie wrote:So did "The Fuzz" ... But we stood our ground. :)


Since I'm a St. Charles taxpayer I will try to follow up on this with the Park District. When I spoke with one of the supervisors last year there was no mention of an issue. From what I gathered from that conversation was that there are soccer clubs paying for upkeep of the fields.

The young man today said something about an Park "ordinance." Not a part of the rules explicitly. Which doesn't make much sense to me. You could tell he wasn't too comfortable with the conversation. Just doing his job. He said he would have someone else come over to talk to us. That someone did eventually have a conversation with him out of our hearing. Afterward the young man just gave us a wave. Like nothing else was going to come of it. Whether he was told he was mistaken or it was determined it was not worth making a fuss over. Brian and I don't know.

20832317261_4d4d5c70b0_z.jpg


Bill


Damn! Bill playin' the heavy. Way to go bill.

Sorry Brian. I should have checked. Since I played on Saturday had lots of home chores to catch up on.

The one thing I'm most confused about is even if the soccer clubs pay for some of the upkeep, the fields are open access. I do know that TriCities Football pays for exclusive access to the lit football field and that's why it is roped off. The ordinances don't appear to mention anything about kites specifically and so.... although Xay was flying (2) 200 sq ft behemoths with 100 ft pennants so I'm sure someone got their undies in wad. The guy on Saturday was much more cock sure of himself. Maybe yesterday was easier because there were fewer teams playing as the tournament was probably winding down at that point.

Re: Aug 22 or 23 quick fly

Posted: Mon, Aug 24 2015, 01:39 PM
by illescasd
Here are some pictures of the 1st & LAST (maybe) St Charles kite event.

We may need an alternate place to fly or have the St Charles park rules handy. When I asked the poor park guy, he replied "some kid could trip over the kite lines". Tripping could never, never happen on a soccer field.

Re: Aug 22 or 23 quick fly

Posted: Mon, Aug 24 2015, 03:14 PM
by goestoeleven
Here's the specific ordinance for St. Charles Park District for future reference:

Chapter IV

Section 11 - Aviation: Make any ascent in a balloon, ultra-lite, airplane, glider, hand
glider, kite or any descent in or from any balloon, ultra-lite, airplane, glider, hand
glider, kite or parachute without a permit therefore.

http://www.stcparks.org/Park-Board/pdfs ... ne2009.pdf

Of course, this from Chapter VII trumps everything:

Section 2 - Resisting or Interfering: No person shall resist any Commissioner or employee
of the District or sworn police officer in the discharge of his duty, or fail or
refuse to obey any lawful command of any such Commissioner or employee or police
officer or in any way interfere with or hinder or prevent any such Commissioner or
employee or police officer from discharging his duty, or in any manner assist or give
aid to any person in custody to escape or to attempt to escape from custody, or rescue
or attempt to rescue any person when in such custody.

Re: Aug 22 or 23 quick fly

Posted: Mon, Aug 24 2015, 03:45 PM
by KiteVoice
goestoeleven wrote:Here's the specific ordinance for St. Charles Park District for future reference:


It might be wise to attempt to get, in writing, and official statement as to whether the ordinance prohibits the flying of kites, when those kites do not carry any person. Assuming that the officials write that it does not, it would be wise to keep a copy of that written communication to show any officers who question kite flying activities. If an officer still insists that the kite flying cease, it would be wise to comply immediately and subsequently communicate the officer's name to the park board official who indicated kite flying is not prohibited.

Re: Aug 22 or 23 quick fly

Posted: Mon, Aug 24 2015, 04:05 PM
by goestoeleven
That's pretty much what I'm recommending. If we have the ordinance in hand, we can show quite clearly that we are not ascending or descending by kite.

That said, I don't think it's practical for every member to carry a printed copy of the park district ordinances with them every time we fly. We now have it linked & referenced here on the forum. At least we can have a discussion on the ordinances the next time the safety officer wants to suggest it's not allowed.

If they insist we stop flying, then we stop flying. Section VII.2 gives them leeway to do anything they want to discharge their duty, so it's not worth arguing.

Since Bill's a tax payer there, and has work schedule flexibility, maybe he can take it up with the board.

Re: Aug 22 or 23 quick fly

Posted: Mon, Aug 24 2015, 04:09 PM
by basicbill
Thanks for the link, Steve. Will be good to have when I have my discussion. Although it seems clear to me.

I see that no one may "engage in gambling of any form." Flying formation with me may qualify. ;)

Bill

Re: Aug 22 or 23 quick fly

Posted: Mon, Aug 24 2015, 04:21 PM
by goestoeleven
Yeah. Plus if we ever get big enough to have a big group (more than 20) then we'll need a permit.

Be great if we could get the AKA convention somewhere semi-local . . . but that's a LOT of work to organize, I bet, and I don't have enough free time.

I think it's the big kites that freak them out - and it's not just Say's kites. I had a 13 foot delta up that was moving around quite a lot in the gusts, and that worried me more than his foils (because his have no spars). I think if we were far from the parking lot and there were no soccer games, it might not have been an issue.

Another interesting point is that this aviation ordinance is almost identical to the DuPage Forest Preserve ordinance. They are trying to prevent skydiving and hang gliding (and other aviation), not kite flying. I'll bet most of these park district ordinances are built on a model set that the districts follow.

Re: Aug 22 or 23 quick fly

Posted: Tue, Aug 25 2015, 01:05 AM
by makatakam
goestoeleven wrote:Here's the specific ordinance for St. Charles Park District for future reference:

Chapter IV

Section 11 - Aviation: Make any ascent in a balloon, ultra-lite, airplane, glider, hand
glider, kite or any descent in or from any balloon, ultra-lite, airplane, glider, hand
glider, kite or parachute without a permit therefore.

http://www.stcparks.org/Park-Board/pdfs ... ne2009.pdf

Of course, this from Chapter VII trumps everything:

Section 2 - Resisting or Interfering: No person shall resist any Commissioner or employee
of the District or sworn police officer in the discharge of his duty,or fail or
refuse to obey any lawful command
of any such Commissioner or employee or police
officer or in any way interfere with or hinder or prevent any such Commissioner or
employee or police officer from discharging his duty, or in any manner assist or give
aid to any person in custody to escape or to attempt to escape from custody, or rescue
or attempt to rescue any person when in such custody.


The part I highlighted says "lawful" command. If that person's command is not lawful, then what?

Re: Aug 22 or 23 quick fly

Posted: Tue, Aug 25 2015, 07:30 AM
by KiteVoice
makatakam wrote:The part I highlighted says "lawful" command. If that person's command is not lawful, then what?


I guess that depends on whether you want to go to jail now and convince a judge later that the the command was unlawful, or go home now and try to convince the officer's boss later that the command was unlawful.

Re: Aug 22 or 23 quick fly

Posted: Tue, Aug 25 2015, 08:37 AM
by goestoeleven
Yep, I'd take the kites down and discuss it at the park board meeting . . . .

Re: Aug 22 or 23 quick fly

Posted: Fri, Aug 28 2015, 07:56 AM
by basicbill
I did have a lengthy phone conversation on Wednesday with a STC Park "Assistant to Park Operations." Although he indicated that kites are allowed, there are certain facilities that have "agreements" that can limit their use. The East Side facility is one of them. He has agreed to forward these agreements to me (Yet to see them.) and to keep the lines of communication open regarding the issue. He did suggest the facility at Plum Rose Farms Park, northwest of town near Crane and Bolcum Roads as an alternative. I'll have to go check it out. Interestingly the facility map shows a kite being flown there (number 18) http://www.stcparks.org/Parks/pdfs/Map.pdf
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STC Parks
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I will continue to keep in touch with this person and other individuals at the STC Park District.

Bill

Re: Aug 22 or 23 quick fly

Posted: Fri, Aug 28 2015, 09:14 AM
by TMadz
I'm familiar with it. It is a large park and there is plenty or room. It's a little out of the way. I know TriCities football practices there in the evenings and I don't recall if the flag football plays there on Saturdays. The park district obviously wants to keep the fields open for sports. It's notrh of 64. Pretty close for Xay compared to Bill and the rest of us.

Re: Aug 22 or 23 quick fly

Posted: Fri, Sep 25 2015, 04:53 PM
by basicbill
Today I went over to the Primrose Farm field that the STC Park District official suggested as a kite flying area. In fact it seems decent. However it does have sections marked for sports. And baseball diamonds. So there might be conflicts there too. Flew for about an hour. Nary a soul around.
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A bit out of the way for some I know.

Bill

Re: Aug 22 or 23 quick fly

Posted: Fri, Sep 25 2015, 08:39 PM
by TMadz
Well ,you were flying on a school day.