Video Problem

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Knoted4ever
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Video Problem

Postby Knoted4ever » Tue, Apr 17 2007, 09:26 PM

i burned my first dual trick line video onto a disc and took it to work. To my surprise, it did not work on any of our computers (and everyone around is even more computer illiterate than i ever was)!

It works fine at home, but not with the computers at work. Here is what the error thing says:

"Windows Media Player cannot play the file. The file may be formatted with an unsupported Codec or the internet security setting on your computer is set too high."

Well, i changed the internet security settings... and they still refused to work with my disc!

i had used some kind of rendering thing, in the final production of my disc. Could that be the culprit? Maybe i'll try to produce it again without the rendering thing (which was supposed to make it go faster).

Any suggestions or tips on this would be much appreciated!

i'm also interested in getting someone to upload it for me (please), probably to Kitebox.com (and we can access it from here), Kitebox is a nice site for videos and is easy to register on (easy membership). i, unfortunately, have slooooooow speed dial-up!
Tom P.
Illinois_______ (excerpt from E. E. Cummings: "How many winds make wonderful... and is luck The skeleton of life")

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Mike
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Re: Video Problem

Postby Mike » Wed, Apr 18 2007, 08:22 AM

It may be the "video rendering thing". There's a whole bunch of "codecs" out there. A codec is the method of compressing the video and you have to have the matching codec installed on your computer to play it. It sounds like you used an unusual codec with your "video rendering thing".

What program did you use to create the video?
Do you have choices like MPG or AVI, etc. Do you have the choice to make a video cd?

Jeff or Babbman can make some suggestions as to the most popular codecs.

If you're coming to Oswego, bring the video with you on a DVD or CD and we'll see what we can do.

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Jeff
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Re: Video Problem

Postby Jeff » Wed, Apr 18 2007, 09:30 AM

If you just want to play it on a PC, it's probably easiest to encode it to a .wmv file. You'd at least be sure that Windows Media Player could handle it.
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awindofchange
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Re: Video Problem

Postby awindofchange » Wed, Apr 18 2007, 12:46 PM

Here is a link to Microsoft's codec download packages. This should download all compatible codec's for Windows Media Player. Usually if you have the latest version of Microsoft Media Player it will include these codec's.

Here is the link:
Windows Knowledge Base - Codec's

Second problem is that if you made a DVD, the computer you are trying to play the video on does not have a DVD decoder installed onto it. If it is on a CD then it should be no problem. I don't know why Windows Media Player doesn't have its own installed DVD decoder - this seems totally stupid to me. Perhaps it has to do with some kind of royalty thing with the DVD decoding or something...don't know. BUT, you do have to install a third party DVD decoder in order to play DVD video's on your computer. Normally the DVD decoder program is included with the purchase of your DVD player.

Another option you may want to try is downloading the DIVX player. This is a much more video friendly player than Windows Media Player and it usually has all the latest codec's already installed on it. You can download the free DIVX player here:

DivX Player Download Page

I agree that Babbman or someone else more familiar with video editing / playing will have a lot more info for you. Hopefully this will give you a quick fix.
Happy Winds!
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Babbman
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Re: Video Problem

Postby Babbman » Wed, Apr 18 2007, 03:19 PM

It's a codec thing and is probably exactly what Kent described... there are so many different codecs out there that it is madness brought to it's highest form...

I'd suggest a codec pack to cover most of the bases... http://www.xpcodecpack.com/ will cover XP. If you have vista, http://www.msfn.org/board/index.php?showtopic=66826

If this is indeed a real DVD that you can play in a normal DVD player, you will need to get some DVD player software... no time to find any now though..

It's even more fun when dealing with IPOD video....

Chris (aka Babbman)

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Knoted4ever
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Re: Video Problem

Postby Knoted4ever » Wed, Apr 18 2007, 10:24 PM

Thanks for the info, folks! Life sure can be unsimple 2innumerably!

Just a little while ago today i downloaded a more recent version of Microsoft Media Player 10 to my computer. With my dial-up it took a while, but i managed to get it through. This should contain the requisite codecs, i hope... so i'll try it again i suppose. i have Cyberlink Power Director and Cyberlink Power Producer software to produce the stuff... and i had used CD discs. i created an mpg2 file and copied that onto a CD. i did it (last night)without that rendering crap from the day before, but it still did not work with the puters at work. A co-worker took the CD home and will let me know tomorrow if it worked on her home computer.

What i don't get is that a little while ago i took a CD of one of Lam Hoac's to work, a Microsoft Media Player disc... and it played fine on the work computers. Even after i produced mine without the fancy (faster) rendering stuff yesterday, i still could not get it to play at work today. This time, the error message was not about codecs, but was something else re unavailability or something of the sort (which i can't recall, word for word, at the time).

i'll probably try it with the newer version of Media Player that i installed. The Power Producer software gives me all kinds of choices as to what to format it as (at the end). i chose mpg because i thought that that was the best and most common. That's what most of the kite movies are on regarding the discs that were given to me by a DSL speed friend. i'm not familiar with DIVX... i wonder if that would be good to experiment with?... but for now i'm going to stick it out with mpg.

If i remember right, the video was only around 5 minutes long... but the Properties stuff showed around 200 MB of data!... Does that get chopped down by Google after it is uploaded... i wonder?... or what? It seems like a lot of data!!!

That first video that i made (even though the winds were rather gusty and choppy) turned out very sweet indeed! :up: Bees would try to take it to their hive. :wink:
Tom P.

Illinois_______ (excerpt from E. E. Cummings: "How many winds make wonderful... and is luck The skeleton of life")

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Mike
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Re: Video Problem

Postby Mike » Wed, Apr 18 2007, 10:33 PM

Tom,
-unless you're using media player to make the video, having version 10 probably wont make any difference.
-The text of the error message actually means something to tech-heads, write it down for us.
-Google will chop it down. The quality will suffer some on google.

I'll bring my laptop to Oswego. Will you be able to make it?

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Babbman
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Re: Video Problem

Postby Babbman » Thu, Apr 19 2007, 06:00 AM

Knoted4ever wrote: and i had used CD discs. i created an mpg2 file and copied that onto a CD. i did it (last night)without that rendering crap from the day before, but it still did not work with the puters at work.


bingo...

MPEG2 is a great format in terms of quality vs. file size BUT, it is not common for people to have that codec unless they have DVD authoring software on their computer as MPEG2 is the format used for rendering DVD's

If you are going to do it that way, you will need to burn it as DVD media rather than copying the files to a disk. Personally, when creating movies that are to be played on regular set top DVD players, I always render the content as MPEG2's as it avoids a lengthy conversion process when compiling and burning the DVD. For example, on my Drumshow DVD (which is played through my set top DVD player for the show), if I burn everything to AVI's, I get huge files that have great quality but it takes up to 5 hrs hours (on a 3.2GHz Athlon x64 dual core CPU with 2 GB RAM) to render and burn the final DVD. If I do everything to MPEG2 and then render to DVD, it takes about 1/2 hr.

Many people don't realize that this conversion takes place and I wonder how many people render their videos to AVI, believing that they are getting the best quality, and then wondering why it takes so damn long to actually create the DVD... I wonder how many have given up completely on making DVD's after waiting several hours for something to get done...

Codecs are probably one of the most confusing aspects of the home video side of things...

When it comes down to it, here's how I gauge what format to render my videos to.

AVI - When I want the best quality for something to be played on my computer. An hour of video in this format equates to about 13GB

MPEG1 - When I make something to be played through projection systems connected to a computer. Most of the projection systems down convert the signal anyway and the file size is small and manageable. It seems to be the most compatible and playable on most computers.

MPEG2 - When rendering video to be burned as a DVD. All video is converted to this format when burning a DVD. File size is again manageable.

WMV - When doing something to be uploaded to youtube/google video, sent through e-mail.

MPEG4 - when doing something for my IPOD. I use Sorensen Squeeze to actually get the format/quality I want.

Other terms:

NTSC - North American TV standard.
PAL - European TV standard

HD - upcoming and great quality. Huge file sizes. I don't bother with it yet as I don't have a HD camera and 99% of the places I do video for don't have the proper equipment to play it back.

All of my video work is done in Sony Vegas Video 7.0d and DVD's authored in Sony DVD Architect 4.0b. I have the ability to burn into any format but had to be careful with MPEG2 as the default MPEG2 template had the audio rendering turned off for some stupid reason.

Now, the Audio side is a whole other issue.

Other Video people, please weigh in here as I am no expert.... I just know what works for me.


Chris (aka Babbman)



They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety...
Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759


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Mike
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Re: Video Problem

Postby Mike » Thu, Apr 19 2007, 07:41 AM

Tom, the short answer is make your video mpeg1 :-)

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Jeff
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Re: Video Problem

Postby Jeff » Thu, Apr 19 2007, 12:08 PM

You're pretty much on target there, Chris.

I didn't get the impression that he was trying to even make a DVD, just put the file on a CD and play it on a PC with Windows Media Player. For that, wmv is probably just the simplest and most compatible way to go.

I pretty much do all my work with AVI from DV in the editor, and export the movie to a DVD compliant MPEG2 file for authoring. I don't really want the authoring program to waste time doing the encoding.

For saving to the web, I've been encoding directly to Flash, since the hosting sites do that anyway. And for my own website, I am using Flash just because it has the most universal compatibility with existing browsers...something like 98%.

I have to say, I am looking forward to getting into HD at some point. 8)
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Re: Video Problem

Postby Babbman » Thu, Apr 19 2007, 02:43 PM

Jeff wrote:I have to say, I am looking forward to getting into HD at some point. 8)


virtually all of my video work is played through a program called Media Shout so I use MPEG1's as it is compatible regardless of which computer they happen to be using... I'll have to start using Flash to see if my other stuff will benefit from it.

Having the authoring program doing the encoding was a shock and a pain to me back when I first started doing video in 2000... I remember getting a project done with 2 hrs to spare and then waiting 3 hrs for it to be encoded... that's when I started rendering to MPEG2's. Now, I just wait for any DVD backgrounds and preview animation to render and wait for the DVD burn... 1/2 hr max. I do all of my actual rendering at night with a batch render script in Vegas and 2 or 3 computers, depending on the size of the project.

I'm looking forward to HD also.... but... I need a faster system and about a Pentabyte of drive storage...lol

I currently have over 3 terrabytes at home and it's pretty full as I need to keep many of my projects available for updates and re-use... Thank God for USB Drives and cheap prices.


Chris (aka Babbman)



They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety...
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Knoted4ever
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Re: Video Problem

Postby Knoted4ever » Thu, Apr 19 2007, 10:55 PM

i put mine in mpg-2. It worked in my co-worker's home computer. i think that it's all the protective stuff where i work that prevented it from working there; the work computers are maxed out with all kinds of protective gunk.

i'll probably be coming to Oswego, and will bring a couple of discs there. Winds are supposed to be pretty nice! :mrblue:
Tom P.

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Mike
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Re: Video Problem

Postby Mike » Fri, Apr 20 2007, 06:07 AM

It might be the protective stuff, but it's more likely the mpeg2 format. Try mpeg1 for the guys at work.

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Knoted4ever
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Re: Video Problem

Postby Knoted4ever » Fri, Apr 20 2007, 09:11 PM

If i remember right, the mpeg1 format offered in my production system only allowed for a significantly smaller picture, pixel-wise; that's why i went with the mpeg2 choice. Can't i just leave it with mpeg2?... it looks pretty good that way! i'll possibly try to also put in into mpeg1... and i'll see how it looks.
Tom P.

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Babbman
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Re: Video Problem

Postby Babbman » Fri, Apr 20 2007, 10:55 PM

and continuing to speak of video... this is something I have to deal with on a constant basis...

No matter how good you make it look and how great the codec is, you will have to show it on substandard equipment that makes if look like crap... :rotfl

A couple of examples:

I did our capital campaign information and inspirational videos for church. They were very important and I spent several hundred hours putting it together. There was a lot of really great subtle looks and other things in it that looked great. When I showed it to our group, it was shown on a projector that completely washed out everything. I was devastated... later on, it was shown in small groups and played on Plasma's and DLP's, etc... everyone was blown away by how different it looked.

For Drumshow, I am stuck with 2 crappy projectors that are dark, fuzzy and look like crap. I have to take this into account and make sure everything I do is vivid and contrasted... as part of the final render, I have to kick the brightness up a few notches so it can be seen clearly... it's very frustrating to have to play to the lowest denominator on that show... And no matter how clear and excellent it looks on my computer, it's just not as good in the auditorium.

And another thing....

We did our 1st show tonight. Everything went pretty well except that the DVD player I was using seemed to have a heat problem and just as we got to the most IMPORTANT part of the show... the introductions of the cast, the damn thing started skipping and stuttering... If I was going to have a heart attack, I would have had it right then and there... 850 people watching, screaming for their favorite students, Foo Fighters music as part of it... reaching the climax a-a-nd it st-st-starts stu-stu-stu-stutering...ing..ing...

What did I learn?? Have another DVD player at the ready just in case..as well as an extra copy of the DVD. had this thing stopped cold and returned to the menu at that point, I would have filled my drawers with poo. Then again, right in the middle of a video, there wasn't anything you could do except wait and hope it didn't. Fortunately, I DID have another player sitting right there and the video DID finish without stopping cold.

Wheew...


Chris (aka Babbman)



They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety...
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Jeff
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Re: Video Problem

Postby Jeff » Sun, Apr 22 2007, 09:11 AM

Hey Tom, I have a question. I got your video to play just fine on my computer...it looks good.

Does your camera shoot in widescreen? Because it looks like the proper aspect ratio is 16:9 widescreen. I was just wondering if that was intentional, or if maybe it was cropped for widescreen when you edited it.
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Re: Video Problem

Postby Jeff » Sun, Apr 22 2007, 02:46 PM

I've uploaded your video to Google Video. They've done whatever processing they throw into the mix...

Now, without a broadband connection, I don't suppose you'll be able to view it all that well, but at least the rest of the club can. :P

[googlevideo]-6675155412194509003[/googlevideo]
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Re: Video Problem

Postby Hector Herrera » Sun, Apr 22 2007, 08:24 PM

BRAVO, BRAVO :clap :clap Excelent video, you guys have to send me the formula... :shock:
Crisp, and clear, it is really good. Congratulations.
And Knoted4Ever is a sharp pilot... :up: I take my hat off... :shock:
It gives me that urge to practice more to become as good as Tom.
Congratulations to both of you, and to all IKERS... :clap :clap :clap
****Héctor Herrera****
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Knoted4ever
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Re: Video Problem

Postby Knoted4ever » Sun, Apr 22 2007, 10:17 PM

Wow! Thank you so very much, Jeff! i am very appreciative that you uploaded the video... and so quickly! 8)

i clicked on it and it started downloading... and was downloading pretty quickly (for my dial-up system), which i don't understand. That shouldn't be, i thought! Did Google chop off so many megs... or is it that somehow what is downloaded to my box is tailored to my system's speed capability? Of course, i don't need to download my videos, as i have them in great quality on disc and on hard drive already; but it's great to let others see them. i gave Ken a CD at yesterday's super festival, as he has a dial-up system like i do.

Kitebox.com also has an uploading function (with all kinds of high meg stuff)... you have to be a member, but it's easy to register on (and, once you are a member, you have to send them a separate email with your password to get information and access to uploading capability). i think that Kitebox's is probably superior to Google's, though i may be wrong. If you don't mind, Jeff, please, when you get a chance, check out Kitebox's site and video uploading system and see if it's better (i.e., try my video there perhaps).

Yes, i did it in 16:9 on purpose. Is that OK to do?

Also, Jeff... did i understand you correctly yesterday... that even when you burn to CD disc... there is some degradation in the quality of the video? Would putting it to DVD be better, which i believe i can do? i remember reading one time that CD and DVD both have a limited life span (much worse than many people think... something like 5 years for CDs)! There are MiniDV Master Tapes to preserve things better... but would DVD be OK for my purposes?

Thanks Hector! :up: i love my dualies!

The quad fliers looked extremely impressive at the Oswego Festival yesterday. IKE is looking better than ever!


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The miracle
is not to fly in the air,
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Tom P.

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Jeff
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Re: Video Problem

Postby Jeff » Sun, Apr 22 2007, 11:58 PM

Knoted4ever wrote:Wow! Thank you so very much, Jeff! i am very appreciative that you uploaded the video... and so quickly! 8)

i clicked on it and it started downloading... and was downloading pretty quickly (for my dial-up system), which i don't understand. That shouldn't be, i thought! Did Google chop off so many megs... or is it that somehow what is downloaded to my box is tailored to my system's speed capability?

Well, Google will indeed compress the file down further. But actually, what I did was take your original file, which was around 145MB and I transcoded it into a WMV file that is only about 24MB. That is what I uploaded to Google video. Now Google does still transcode it again, and that took it down to about a 7MB FLV file.


Knoted4ever wrote:Yes, i did it in 16:9 on purpose. Is that OK to do?

It is, I just wanted to make sure.

Knoted4ever wrote:Also, Jeff... did i understand you correctly yesterday... that even when you burn to CD disc... there is some degradation in the quality of the video? Would putting it to DVD be better, which i believe i can do? i remember reading one time that CD and DVD both have a limited life span (much worse than many people think... something like 5 years for CDs)! There are MiniDV Master Tapes to preserve things better... but would DVD be OK for my purposes?

I believe that we were talking about transcoding a video from one format to another. If you were to save the file out of the camera in exactly the format it was originally stored in, and copied that to a CD (not much space there) or a DVD then there will not be any quality loss.

But if you author it to a DVD that will play in a consumer DVD player, then by necessity you will be encoding the video to a DVD-compliant MPEG2 format. This video is then at something slightly less than its original quality.

As for the lifespan of CDs and DVDs, I really don't know. I've heard lots of differing information. But I'll tell you, I have many CDs that are more than 5 years old and are still just fine.
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