SLK anchoring

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Babbman
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SLK anchoring

Postby Babbman » Thu, Jan 11 2007, 02:51 PM

Al... can you give me some insight on the best ways to anchor some of the larger (for us... smaller for you... :o ) SLK's that some of us are getting?

I just bought a 2 meter flowform from Dave and it doesn't sound like using a dog stake is the best way to do things...

Maybe just a primer on staking and tying the line in with webbing, carabiners, etc....

thanks!

Chris (aka Babbman)

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety...
Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759

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Chris
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Re: SLK anchoring

Postby Chris » Thu, Jan 11 2007, 03:41 PM

Here's a good start to all your anchoring questions- http://www.gombergkites.com/faq-a.html

Use your jugement, but for 10-15 mph winds, the dogstake works fine with 200lb line and double parasled. As you saw last week, it really doesn't pull THAT hard.

I'm sure Al will have some much better insight on the subject than I do. :|
It's a great satisfaction knowing that for a brief point in time you made a difference.

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TheBigKiteGuy
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Re: SLK Anchoring

Postby TheBigKiteGuy » Thu, Jan 11 2007, 10:55 PM

A 2 meter kite should not be a problem with a dog stake as long as it is not one of the real light ones and is screwed well into the ground. One thing I don't like about dog stakes is that if it is not fully screwed in, the attachment point is not at ground level which gives the kite some leverage. Giving a larger kite any type of mechanical advantage is always a bad thing. Also I would not trust the attachment ring and would use a loop of webbing larksheaded around the dog stake at ground level.

I use a banquet tent stake, inch diameter, 3 foot long. That is truly overkill for you. It is overkill for some of my smaller stuff too, but there is a limit to how much stuff I can carry.

Having seen a few metal anchors airborne, I usually opt for overkill. You may get laughed at, but you won't turn your kite into a deadly weapon. I have made my share of stupid mistakes, but I have avoided this one to date.
Alan Sparling

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Babbman
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Re: SLK anchoring

Postby Babbman » Fri, Jan 12 2007, 06:56 AM

Al... Dave mentioned that there was something that you did with the webbing for making a loop in it, I believe... he couldn't remember the details but said to ask you about it..

My intention is to hit REI and get my webbing through them... I'll probably get my carabiners there also... any thoughts or recommendations..

My goal is to make sure that I learn to avoid mistakes rather than learning from mistakes...lol


Chris (aka Babbman)



They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety...
Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759


JJ
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Re: SLK Anchoring

Postby JJ » Fri, Jan 12 2007, 07:55 AM

i use a concrete form stack to anchor my 4 sq. meter pilot. I usally don't fly it in anything over about 15 miles an hour.

jj

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awindofchange
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Re: SLK Anchoring

Postby awindofchange » Fri, Jan 12 2007, 06:28 PM

The concrete form spikes work great. We have been using them for quite a while now. You can find them at any mega home store such as Lowes or Home Depot. Cost is usually under 2 bucks and they have pre-drilled holes in them at 6-8 inch increments to nail to the form sides. Don't tie your line through the holes, the edges are much to sharp and it will end up slicing through. We drill the holes out a little larger and put in a removable link or smooth eye bolt to tie onto. For the larger stuff, put one eye bolt lower in the spike and another at the top of the stake pointing in the opposite direction. You can anchor your kite to the lower one and then anchor a second spike from the top of the first to the bottom of the second....if that makes sense. This stake setup will hold nearly anything you want to put in the air except for the ultra huge mega giants which a bulldozer or huge dump truck full of concrete works good.

Another inexpensive option is to purchase a 2 - 3 ft. length of 1 1/2" x 1/4" angle iron, cut the end of it to a point and then weld a flat piece on the top to hammer onto. Put the angle iron into the ground at an angle facing upwind so that the cupped area is facing the kite, when it pulls it will dig into the ground. The nice thing about this type of stake is that you can simply pound it backwards and it slides out of the ground easy. This also works well for some sand areas. A little larger angle may be best for super soft sand but it works the same way.

Both of these can be put together for pretty much no cost. Hope that helps you out
Happy Winds!
Kent
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TheBigKiteGuy
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Re: SLK Anchoring

Postby TheBigKiteGuy » Fri, Jan 12 2007, 11:02 PM

Babbman wrote:Al... Dave mentioned that there was something that you did with the webbing for making a loop in it, I believe... he couldn't remember the details but said to ask you about it..

My intention is to hit REI and get my webbing through them... I'll probably get my carabiners there also... any thoughts or recommendations..

My goal is to make sure that I learn to avoid mistakes rather than learning from mistakes...lol


In order to maintain as much of the strength of the webbing as possible, you tie a very loose overhand knot in tubular webbing well back from the cut end, then feed the other end of the webbing inside of the end with the knot. I use a spar with an arrow nock to do this. Feed eight inches to a foot of webbing into the center of the other end. Make sure everything is laying as flat as possible and then work the knot down so that the entire knot is formed with the section of webbing you just inserted the other end into. Tighten the knot and you have a very strong webbing loop. This sounds a lot more complicated than it is. Or maybe I am just explaining it poorly. Climbers use this technique to make loops their lives depend on.
Alan Sparling

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Chris
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Re: SLK anchoring

Postby Chris » Sat, Jan 13 2007, 05:34 AM

Do you mean a double figure eight like this?-- http://www.theropepeople.com/DoubleFigureEight.html

I was taught to use this knot at Vertical Endeavors in Warrenville for top rope climbing.
It's a great satisfaction knowing that for a brief point in time you made a difference.



-unknown

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TheBigKiteGuy
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Re: SLK Anchoring

Postby TheBigKiteGuy » Sat, Jan 13 2007, 12:19 PM

Chris wrote:Do you mean a double figure eight like this?-- http://www.theropepeople.com/DoubleFigureEight.html

I was taught to use this knot at Vertical Endeavors in Warrenville for top rope climbing.


No, I use that knot to tie loops in the ends of my flying lines.

It is basically a water knot, but with one end of the webbing threaded inside the other, rather than one laying on to of the other.

http://www.animatedknots.com/waterknotr ... dknots.com
Alan Sparling

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Re: SLK Anchoring

Postby TheBigKiteGuy » Sat, Jan 13 2007, 12:57 PM

After some searching, the knot I use for making webbing loops is the beer knot.

http://www.canyoneering.com/gear/ties_beerknot.html
Alan Sparling

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Chris
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Re: SLK anchoring

Postby Chris » Sat, Jan 13 2007, 04:26 PM

I have to say, that's a neat knot. :up:
It's a great satisfaction knowing that for a brief point in time you made a difference.



-unknown

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Babbman
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Re: SLK Anchoring

Postby Babbman » Sat, Jan 13 2007, 04:34 PM

TheBigKiteGuy wrote:After some searching, the knot I use for making webbing loops is the beer knot.

http://www.canyoneering.com/gear/ties_beerknot.html


for us non-drinkers... do they have a Dr. Pepper knot? :twisted:

Thanks for the information Al!


Chris (aka Babbman)



They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety...
Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759


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Chris
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Re: SLK anchoring

Postby Chris » Wed, Jan 17 2007, 09:05 PM

I remember reading it somewhere... :blink1: Isn't there some long fancy formula to determine the amount of pull a kite will develop at a given wind speed?

What I would like to know; if I build a kite, how do accurately determine the strength of line needed to safely handle the load.

On a side note- are kite line weight ratings static or dynamic?
It's a great satisfaction knowing that for a brief point in time you made a difference.



-unknown

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TheBigKiteGuy
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Re: SLK Anchoring

Postby TheBigKiteGuy » Wed, Jan 17 2007, 11:46 PM

I seem to remember something of this from years ago. But I am very skeptical. Ignoring soft and other three dimensional kites for now, having a formula that could accurately determine the amount of pull from looking at a kite on the ground using commonly available measurements does not seem likely. You can measure the sail area, the weight, and determine the sail loading, but weight distribution affects angle of attack which affects the efficiency of the air form which would be a major input to how much pull a kite would have. It could probably be done with a good computer model, but that is overkill I have found over the years that the need to get fancy goes away. You look at a kite and have a pretty good guess of what line you need. If the line has no droop and is singing, use heavier line, if the line droops a lot, use lighter line.
Alan Sparling

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Mike
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Re: SLK anchoring

Postby Mike » Tue, Jan 23 2007, 10:44 AM

I'm with Al. I don't think you can do this with a math formula. Next time you fly your Rok, try adjusting the bridling up or down a bit. The kite will fly at different angles and vary in pull. So the math would be pretty tricky.


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