Vertical rods question

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grigorib
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Vertical rods question

Postby grigorib » Fri, May 22 2015, 10:51 AM

Two questions:

1. Is there a good reason for using same weight/strength vertical rods as on leading edge, why not tuning it down to 3-wrap (for 4-wrap LE) or 2-wrap (for 3-wrap LE) ?
2. If I'm flying 1.5 SLE with 1/2" SLE 3-wrap UL leading edge - would it make better experience to use 4-wrap 1/4" rods instead? Should I rather use 3-wrap LE?

TMadz
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Re: Vertical rods question

Postby TMadz » Fri, May 22 2015, 12:57 PM

First of all you are definitely limiting your wind range by flying that behemoth SLE rod. The vertical spars aren't under the same stress as the leading edge so you can use what you want. There is no reason other than weight consideration. I would say get rid of the SLE and get a couple of different sets of rods. 3 wraps, 2 wraps. If you're handy, you can buy some 3rd party carbon rods and make your own set too.
Bonum vinum laetificat cor hominis

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makatakam
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Re: Vertical rods question

Postby makatakam » Fri, May 22 2015, 07:54 PM

You can mix & match all you want to change the kites flexibility & weight. Some people even mix the rods in the leading edge, using a stiffer center and lighter outers, or vice-versa. Experimentation will help you better understand the performance characteristics of the sail you are using in different winds.

It's half the fun of flying once you are really tuned in to quad-line kites. Whatever combination you use should allow you to load the sail in the lulls, and not break in the gusts.
MARK

"...it's a fair wind blowin' warm, out of the south over my shoulder, guess I'll set a course and go." CSN&Y

grigorib
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Location: Champaign, IL

Re: Vertical rods question

Postby grigorib » Sat, May 23 2015, 01:59 PM

Okay, now I'm looking for a set of 3-wrap UL leading edge rods. A center and one side piece could be enough - I've got one rod already but I'd get all three as well - just so I have a spare.
Folks, let me know if you'd have rods for sale.

TMadz
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Re: Vertical rods question

Postby TMadz » Sun, May 24 2015, 08:46 AM

Just buy a set if you can afford it. It's nice to have a couple of spares in case you need them. I haven't broken one yet, but I've broken a few with dualies. You never want to be down for long. Consider it insurance.
Bonum vinum laetificat cor hominis

grigorib
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Joined: Sun, Dec 13 2009, 07:58 PM
Location: Champaign, IL

Re: Vertical rods question

Postby grigorib » Sun, May 24 2015, 08:26 PM

I was flying the 3-wrap rods but I sold the EXP recently and now I'm left with a 2-wrap set, a 4-wrap set and the SLE set with 3-wrap vertical rods.
But coming back to original question details - assuming that 4-wrap LE set flies better than 3-wrap SLE, is it heavier or lighter?
I guess I can stop by the post office and weigh them...

And I know that overloading a non-vented kite is a bad idea, I wouldn't fly 1.5 on 4-wrap spars, I'd just switch to my vented sail but I won't fly vented on 2-wrap set either so here comes my consideration - I can put 4-wrap center LE rod, 3-wrap LE side rods and 2-wrap vertical rods - does that sound terrible?

grigorib
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Location: Champaign, IL

Re: Vertical rods question

Postby grigorib » Tue, May 26 2015, 10:33 AM

So I got them all weighted

3-wrap SLE LE 3.3 oz.
4-wrap LE 3.0 oz.
3-wrap LE - I don't have one....bummer
3-4-3 wrap LE 2.6 oz. (combination of 4-wrap center and 3-wrap side rods)
2-wrap LE 1.8 oz.

3-wrap SLE rod 0.9 oz.
4-wrap rod 0.875 oz.
3-wrap rod 0.7 oz.
2-wrap rod 0.55 oz.

3-wrap full set with SLE LE 4.7 oz.
4-wrap full set 4.8 oz.
3-4-3, 2-2 full set 3-7 oz.
2-wrap full set 2.9 oz.

So my 3-4-3 wrap LE and 2-wrap verticals combination should weigh 3.7 oz. and be slightly stiffer that full 3-wrap set. What do you think, should I still get myself a proper complete 3-wrap set?
Last edited by grigorib on Tue, May 26 2015, 05:16 PM, edited 1 time in total.

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goestoeleven
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Re: Vertical rods question

Postby goestoeleven » Tue, May 26 2015, 12:16 PM

I'd probably just fly the 2 wraps, until something breaks (which hasn't happened to me other than one possible race rod break, which flew into Lake Michigan . . . . so I don't think it broke, just popped the caps). You can buy a 3 wrap set and put them into your venteds . . . . or just keep on flying with what you've got.

I don't think I have any spare rods right now . . . . and I'm missing that race rod that went into the lake.

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Mike
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Re: Vertical rods question

Postby Mike » Tue, May 26 2015, 04:45 PM

Random thoughts:
I've seen vertical race rods break--both at the same time. It made quite a bang! So there is some stress on the verticals.

I like flying the vented in it's lower wind range with 2 wraps.

I've never heard of anyone flying the 3-4-3, 2-2 combo you mention. But it wouldn't hurt. Try it! If you like it, maybe you'll start a new trend.

You can fly 2 wraps in pretty heavy winds in your standard sail. It will have quite a bit of bow in the leading edge.
Some people like a stiff leading edge, some like a flexible one. I tend towards the flexible range.

The only spare rods I have are 4 wraps.

grigorib
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Joined: Sun, Dec 13 2009, 07:58 PM
Location: Champaign, IL

Re: Vertical rods question

Postby grigorib » Tue, May 26 2015, 05:23 PM

Updated my previous post with full set weights. If anyone can weigh the full 3-wrap set and the green set and the race set we can have quite nice details here.

I love flying the standard sail with 2-wrap rods but I mind too much bow when wind picks up. Same with full vented - last week I flew it on 3-wrap rods (while I still had the EXP) and once I switched to 4-wrap I liked it better.

I'd guess that weight wise 3-4-3, 2-2 is about or lighter than full 3-wrap set so I'll give it a try and share how it did.

Mike wrote:Random thoughts:
I've seen vertical race rods break--both at the same time. It made quite a bang! So there is some stress on the verticals.


Isn't it bad for the sail to load it to the point the verticals break?
Would you say it was time to put a sail with more vents or time to use thicker vertical rods? (I personally would choose #1 as the answer)


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