A Lot To Answer For

Questions and conversations related to sewing up a magnificent kite creation.
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TheBigKiteGuy
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A Lot To Answer For

Postby TheBigKiteGuy » Fri, Dec 15 2006, 11:17 AM

The whole discussion about skybows has a lot to answer for. I have been checking with a lot of people to find out if they have ever seen a skybow at a kite festival anywhere. While I was talking to Pete Dolphin, I asked him about plans for the ribbon arches he flys. He told me that he would recommend that I use George Peters' plans, not his (he knows my sewing skills). In looking up the plans in the kitelines archive on Kitelife, there were plans for another piece that I have been wanting for a long time, all of it straight line sewing.

So, I am a lot poorer after ordering 60 yards of ripstop, 34 yards of edge binding, a yard of dacron reinforcing fabric and a spool of thread. It will all come late next week, We will see if I can get it together over the Xmas weekend, probably not.

So it is all the fault of the Skybow thread :-D , which BTW I have not been able to find anyone who has seen one flying. This forum is costing me serious money.

And we will see if anyone can figure out what project would require 54 yards of fabric, 92 feet of edge binding and have all straight sewing. (yes, I ordered extra fabric in each color for mistakes)
Alan Sparling

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Mike
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Re: A Lot To Answer For

Postby Mike » Fri, Dec 15 2006, 07:15 PM

W :shock: W!
That's a lot of Ripstop! I don't have a good guess, but I can't wait to see what it is.

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Babbman
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Re: A Lot To Answer For

Postby Babbman » Fri, Dec 15 2006, 08:20 PM

Al, I'm in the same boat you are... when I got involved with these guys, I was just happy as a clam with all my Revs.... then they infected me with the sewing bug and now... well, I'm alot poorer than I was...lol

Chris (aka Babbman)

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety...
Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759

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Frodos Majik
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Re: A Lot To Answer For

Postby Frodos Majik » Fri, Dec 15 2006, 08:53 PM

Babbman that it very true, but now just think about ALL the original pieces you will have in a little while, and be able to make repairs to all your stuff. :P
May Ol Ma Nature never hold her
breath on you.
-------
Ken

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Draftnik
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Re: A Lot To Answer For

Postby Draftnik » Fri, Dec 15 2006, 09:27 PM

Is it a George Peters playsail :?:

That'll be cool! 8)
TTFN,
Draftnik

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TheBigKiteGuy
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Re: A Lot To Answer For

Postby TheBigKiteGuy » Fri, Dec 15 2006, 10:17 PM

Draftnik wrote:Is it a George Peters playsail :?:

That'll be cool! 8)


OMG, She is good!

Well, it is a playsail, George Peters in overall design, but simplified. Each of the 54 35" x 39" units will be a single piece of fabric, not four pieces of fabric sewn together. A much simpler piece to build and as Steve Ferrel and Barbara Meyer point out, stronger. After talking to Barbara, I am probably going to use reinforced webbing loops instead of grommets and possibly stitch 500# line in under the edge binding. I am also eliminating the extra reinforcements and grommets which are supposed to make it usable as an awning / tent / ground cover.
Attachments
playsail+layout.jpg
A simple design, not as pretty as GPs, but it might actually get done
playsail+layout.jpg (53.78 KiB) Viewed 2077 times
Alan Sparling

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Mike
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Re: A Lot To Answer For

Postby Mike » Sat, Dec 16 2006, 06:54 AM

I've never seen one in person. I'm looking forward to seeing the finished kite--that should be lotsa fun.
Here's some info for the rest of us.
Look at old Kiteline magazines.
Look at the cover of WINTER 1993 (Vol. 10 No. 3) and the article in SUMMER-FALL 1995 (Vol. 11 No. 3)

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TheBigKiteGuy
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Re: A Lot To Answer For

Postby TheBigKiteGuy » Sat, Dec 16 2006, 09:45 AM

I have been looking for affordable sources for both a playsail and a ribbon arch for the past few years. Each time I have helped fly Pete Dolphin's ribbon arch I have asked about building one. So when I called him about the Skybow and if he had every seen one flying, the conversation turned to ribbon arch plans. Knowing my VERY basic sewing skills, he suggested that I use George Peters' plans as even he has trouble duplicating his original arch. Since Kitelife has now put up most of the old Kitelines issues, I could now easily find the plans (I should have the original magazine somewhere, but I was never able to find it).

After I get the playsail done I need to talk to people who have made the GP windbow and get their opinion as to if modifications to make it more like Pete's would work. The biggest difference with Pete's is that it is more controllable due to a second set of handles along the trailing edge. The primary handles are also set closer the leading edge. My problem is that I have flown Pete's arch many times, but never have flown a GP arch. I don't like the thought of not being able to put on the brakes.

It is an odd coincidence that NYKE has just finished a playsail and is starting on a windbow. I guess I am just a little behind the curve here.

Both the playsail and the ribbon arch can be serious workouts, so I am not quite sure why I am making stuff that is going to make me even more tired at the end of the day. Maybe because I think I can actually get these done and that they will actually fly. I am not at the point where I feel that I can invest many hundreds of dollars into ripstop and be able to make my own giant inflatable. :(

Oh well, it is time to get my Xmas shopping done.
Alan Sparling

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Draftnik
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Re: A Lot To Answer For

Postby Draftnik » Sat, Dec 16 2006, 10:51 AM

I have a feeling this is going to make your toes curl, Al. But I'm looking at the playsail wondering how much energy that thing will suck outa kids. :twisted: Run them in something like a bol race, only with team effort involvement-a half dozen on each side.
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Draftnik

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TheBigKiteGuy
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Re: A Lot To Answer For

Postby TheBigKiteGuy » Sat, Dec 16 2006, 12:06 PM

I appreciate the need to tire kids out, but..

A dozen kids without a clue of what they are doing, 500 square feet of sail, add one gust of wind and that equals a dozen lawsuits. Bols create enough pull to tire kids out. I don't think I could buy enough insurance to cover letting kids fly a playsail. A playsail is actually very safe in experienced hands as you just have to let go of one side to power it down. However a group of kids would never let go simultaneously, putting the remaining kids at greater risk. I am pretty sure the negligence clause in most insurance would kick in.

I have gone from being VERY cautious with big kites, to over confident and now back to cautious after years of seeing what can and does go wrong.

Kids in close proximity to extremely powerful kites is not a good mix.
Alan Sparling

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Draftnik
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Re: A Lot To Answer For

Postby Draftnik » Sat, Dec 16 2006, 10:25 PM

Alright, Al, no kids. You can relax your toes now. :-D That playsail is elegantly simple and I still find that inspiring. Hope to get to see it flying!

I really like your sail layout.
TTFN,

Draftnik

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Chris
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Re: A Lot To Answer For

Postby Chris » Sat, Dec 16 2006, 10:26 PM

Cool Al, I think that playsail will be loads of fun! Do you or anyone else have more detailed plans on the skybow? I printed out the GP article from kite lines, I was wondering if multi-colored panels in each unit need any special reinforcement, or is the 3/4" ribbon enough to keep the stress off of the seams? I'm afraid all this talk of playsails and skybows may have sparked my interest :twisted:
It's a great satisfaction knowing that for a brief point in time you made a difference.

-unknown

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TheBigKiteGuy
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Re: A Lot To Answer For

Postby TheBigKiteGuy » Sat, Dec 16 2006, 11:54 PM

Skybow or Windbow?

The Skybow is the thin ribbon / tape thingy. Still can't find anyone who has seen one flying, don't know why it is bugging me, but it it. It does not appear to have flown at many kite festivals, maybe none. This seems like there would have been several making the rounds, I would limit the amount of money spent until someone is found who has seen one flying. I will try David Gomberg after he has a day or two to recover from Susan's birthday trip. I talked to him briefly about a hour ago, they had been traveling for about 30 hours and still had a couple to go.

The Windbow is a ribbon arch a couple of feet wide. The only plans I hae been able to find is that little blurb in Kitelines.

I believe that they made a ribbon arch in MN, ask Barbara Meyer about it at MAKR. I also hear that NYKE is making one, Jeremy Johannesen might be a contact. Other than that I am waiting to finish the playsail before I worry about the ribbon arch
Alan Sparling

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Re: A Lot To Answer For

Postby TheBigKiteGuy » Sun, Dec 17 2006, 12:05 AM

Draftnik wrote:Alright, Al, no kids. You can relax your toes now. :-D That playsail is elegantly simple and I still find that inspiring. Hope to get to see it flying!

I really like your sail layout.


I am an easy target to get wound up about kids in the wrong places. Actually more so about parents who don't take responsibility to keep their kids safe and / or don't think the rules apply to them. I really wish I could have seen David Gomberg's face when a parent stood by smiling while their child repeatedly stabbed an octopus tentacle with a plastic knife.


Glad you like the sail layout, Now I just have to find the right rope to fly it on. I hate the plastic poly stuff GP used, but it needs bulk for handleability and still be light. It does not need to be particularly strong as the playsail is handheld. Oh well, I still have a little time.
Alan Sparling

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Chris
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Re: A Lot To Answer For

Postby Chris » Sun, Dec 17 2006, 08:16 AM

Thanks for your input Al, I did mean the windbow. :oops: I'm going to ask around a little more. If I can't get a definitive "NO" I may just make one anyway :-D I'm the type who has to learn the hard way :shock:
It's a great satisfaction knowing that for a brief point in time you made a difference.



-unknown

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TheBigKiteGuy
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Re: A Lot To Answer For

Postby TheBigKiteGuy » Sun, Dec 17 2006, 12:58 PM

Just remember that these things are a real workout. Pete Dolphin brought two of them to Thailand, it was around 100 degrees, I had a minor case of what we shall euphemistically call intestinal distress. We had both arches up. I was on one end of the first and Pete was beside me helping a Thai college student with one end of the second. I was really feeling the heat and starting to slide. Pete turned to help me and we immediately heard an urgent "Mr Pete! Mr Pete!" The college student was now ten to fifteen feet away in a single hop. You will work harder flying this than anything else you have ever flown. You will also get more attention than ever before.
Alan Sparling

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Mike
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Re: A Lot To Answer For

Postby Mike » Sun, Dec 17 2006, 01:30 PM

So that you don't hear "Mr. Al, Mr. Al....", I'll put some rocks in my pockets. This thing should be a blast!

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TheBigKiteGuy
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Re: A Lot To Answer For

Postby TheBigKiteGuy » Sun, Dec 17 2006, 01:42 PM

I have to talk to Pete again before I try to build a ribbon arch. I don't like the single handle on each end. I like the control that a handle near the leading AND trailing edge provides. I hope Pete will have some insight on melding the two designs.
Alan Sparling

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Draftnik
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Re: A Lot To Answer For

Postby Draftnik » Sun, Dec 17 2006, 02:19 PM

Mike wrote:I'll put some rocks in my pockets.


:rotfl
TTFN,

Draftnik

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TheBigKiteGuy
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Re: A Lot To Answer For

Postby TheBigKiteGuy » Sun, Dec 17 2006, 08:19 PM

I think that just means he will hurt whoever he is thrown into more.
Alan Sparling


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