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Making (or Fixing) A Line Set

Posted: Tue, Apr 24 2007, 11:56 AM
by Jeff
I have a line set that broke near the handle when we were out in Sycamore. I'd like to fix it and get some more use out of it, but I'm not sure how to fix it, specifically with regard to the sleeving.

Is there a particular tool for getting the line through there? Anybody have a tip for that?

Re: Making (or Fixing) A Line Set

Posted: Tue, Apr 24 2007, 01:01 PM
by Babbman
Jeff,

David sells sleeving kits that have the sleeving as well as the tool to fish through the sleeving material to pull your line through.

You can also use a very thin piece of wire bent in half and pushed through. I typically use a high E guitar string...

It's all very easy to do. You could probably reuse the sleeving you have....

Re: Making (or Fixing) A Line Set

Posted: Tue, Apr 24 2007, 02:07 PM
by awindofchange
Yup, piano wire or guitar string works excellent. Just bend it sharply in the middle and shove the pointed bent end through the sleeving. If you still have your old sleeving just pull out the broken spectra line and shove your piano wire through it. Thread your new line through the pointed end of the piano wire and pull about a foot or so through so it doesn't come undone then just pull the piano wire (and your line) back through the sleeve. Once out then slide your sleeving to the desired length, fold over and tie it off. Cut off any excess line and burn the end with a lighter to keep it from fraying out. Wall Mart actually sells guitar strings for pretty darn cheap if you are having difficulty finding one around.

Pretty easy to do. Sleeving kits are just as easy and are basically the same. We have some Laser Pro sleeving kits in stock that come with a nylon braiding that is pre-sleeved. Just open up the braiding, thread your line through and then pull the nylon out of the sleeving and your new line in. If you actually have a bit of line hanging out of your broken set you can use the existing line as your sleeving tool. Just tie a knot in the line (as small as possible) and then work the sleeving over the knot as it slides up your line and pulls the good part of your line through. PUSH the sleeving up the line, don't pull it. Sleeving works the same as those Chinese finger trap toys. When you pull it it collapses, pushing it causes it to expand and open up making it easier to get over your knot.

Hope this helps.

Re: Making (or Fixing) A Line Set

Posted: Tue, Apr 24 2007, 02:08 PM
by Jeff
Babbman wrote:I typically use a high E guitar string...

That's a good idea, I actually have several guitar strings just sitting on my guitars doing nothing constructive to earn their keep. :-)

Re: Making (or Fixing) A Line Set

Posted: Tue, Apr 24 2007, 03:30 PM
by Babbman
Jeff wrote:I actually have several guitar strings just sitting on my guitars doing nothing constructive to earn their keep. :-)


BLASPHEME!

Re: Making (or Fixing) A Line Set

Posted: Tue, Apr 24 2007, 04:36 PM
by Mike
If you need sleeving, you can use regular SLK braided dacron line for sleeving. Around 100# works well. I've also used 50#.
Color it with a sharpie if you want afterwards.

Re: Making (or Fixing) A Line Set

Posted: Tue, Apr 24 2007, 06:42 PM
by Jeff
Babbman wrote:
Jeff wrote:I actually have several guitar strings just sitting on my guitars doing nothing constructive to earn their keep. :-)


BLASPHEME!


Ha! I just don't play much. I have 2 guitars that are mostly idle. I'm a mediocre and infrequent player.

Re: Making (or Fixing) A Line Set

Posted: Tue, Apr 24 2007, 09:08 PM
by TheBigKiteGuy
Thin picture wire worked well for me when I used to sleeve that thin stuff. Now I pull the core out of 6 or 7 mm rope so I can sleeve the spectron 12 (1800# test).

Re: Making (or Fixing) A Line Set

Posted: Tue, Apr 24 2007, 10:32 PM
by Chris
:shock:

Re: Making (or Fixing) A Line Set

Posted: Wed, Apr 25 2007, 01:54 PM
by chicagokite
Those wires work good. We have shanti sleeving kits and they are more of the same . Just make sure
you leave some extra spectra through the line of the sleeving.


David
www.chicagokite.com

Re: Making (or Fixing) A Line Set

Posted: Wed, Apr 25 2007, 08:38 PM
by Knoted4ever
i have sleeving kits that i have never bothered to use. i can give you a set or two when i see you at the next Festival we're at together, if you'd like. Currently i purchase thousand feet rolls of Shanti and tie it directly to the knots of the loops of white or black cord-oriented stuff that i purchase at the craft department of Walmart;(do not get silver... that cord material breaks easily). i sometimes fly in crazy-wild winds --- like i did yesterday, for instance --- and never have lines break at the attachment points; sometimes they have broken in the middle, though! i learned about sleeveless flying while hanging with Lam and his friend last year at Grand Haven. So far, i've had no problems! :mrblue: If you must have sleeves to feel more secure... while at Walmart, buy yourself a nice l.s. shirt!

i always stretch my lines well, when they are new, before securing them to the loop ends.

Lines that break in the middle make pretty nice dental floss.

Re: Making (or Fixing) A Line Set

Posted: Wed, Apr 25 2007, 09:30 PM
by TheBigKiteGuy
To sleeve or not to sleeve is a religious argument that periodically resurfaces.

I sleeve my Spectron 12 for three reasons.

1) Spectron 12 is known for line creep in the knot, with the sleeving and a properly dressed figure eight knot, I have never had this problem. "Normal" weights of spectra might creep too, I never saw it with properly tied and dressed knots.

2) Often when your lines are crossed by some child's line, that line will slide up to the knot and cut your line there. I have had a couple of my heavy sleeves save my Specron. I am pretty sure that what melted the sleeving would have cut the Spectron.

3) Most importantly, the sleeves identify the line as mine and how long it is. Red is my short line, green the medium and blue long.
In Thailand and Berck, when other people were trying to figure out whose line was whose, mine was easily identifiable. Years ago,
REI carried some very thin cord that I stripped the core out of and used as unique sleeving for Spectra.


Back to the need for sleeving sport kite lines, the zealots will never agree. My take was that it took hardly any time to do and on
the slim chance that it would save a line set, it was worth it too me.

Re: Making (or Fixing) A Line Set

Posted: Thu, Apr 26 2007, 08:55 AM
by Draftnik
Thank you Al. I was wondering why in the world you had to sleeve you're line.

Re: Making (or Fixing) A Line Set

Posted: Thu, Apr 26 2007, 10:30 AM
by Jeff
TheBigKiteGuy wrote:Thin picture wire worked well for me when I used to sleeve that thin stuff.
Another good idea. I stopped by the Home Depot, and they had a 100' spool of 28 gauge wire for a couple bucks in the picture hanging section. Folded it in half and fed it through to pull the line through...worked very easily. :up:

Re: Making (or Fixing) A Line Set

Posted: Mon, May 14 2007, 04:34 PM
by Hector Herrera
Today I started to sleeve a line set for one of my quads. :( Man.. that's time consuming, and needs some patience. Not only that, I've got some sleeving stuff from John Mitchell at H.B. Party, and it wasn't until today that I had enough time to try it. I bought the first string guitar for $1.09. Good. then when making the sleeves I don't have any other color but White, Hmmm...I decided to polish my work boots instead of wasting time, and BINGO, painted the darn sleeves black, :shock: but I am sure that shoe polish will come out soon.?
Another thing; I have a couple of hundred feet of 150 test line, and instead of sleeving, I just cut several pieces to make the end of the lines, and I guess with a small lark head knot on the line, and one on the heavy end, I will be able to get both tied up good enough. :roll:
Sooo...Adios guitar string, adios sleeving. I guess is not for me. I like simple solutions.! :wink:
What do you think fellows? any suggestions in coloring the dark sleeves?

Re: Making (or Fixing) A Line Set

Posted: Mon, May 14 2007, 07:23 PM
by Mike
When I make my own linesets, whether I sleeve them or not, I color the ends of the line with a sharpie marker.
It fades eventually, but only takes a few seconds to mark them again.

And the markers come in all colors. You don't have to do black!

Re: Making (or Fixing) A Line Set

Posted: Mon, May 14 2007, 09:28 PM
by Knoted4ever
When i was young, i preferred the women sleeveless; and when i threw them a line that didn't have them pull me in... they'd break it off and i'd float away (at an infinite distance) never to be seen again! :( :cry:




Lyrics from Ian Anderson (of Jethro Tull) from The Secret Language of Birds album:


Circular Breathing


Pick up my wings and fly
into a Constable sky.
Look down on the world and try
to make you out on the distant ground.
Lonely toy in a lost toy-town.
Suspended in spiral sounds -
Sounds of circular breathing.

I'm a kite on a silver thread.
Daring lightning to strike me dead.
Harsh echoes of things you said
banished me to a thinner space
with unholy ghosts of your bedroom face.
Hands cupped to my ears to place
the sound of circular breathing.

Matchbox cityscape below -
I watch Lowry matchstick figures go.
Caught in the timeless flow of discreet silence.

Re: Making (or Fixing) A Line Set

Posted: Tue, Dec 30 2008, 12:34 PM
by linekahuna
You can also dye the sleeving any color you want.
Have used Rit dye for this and even dyed some vinyl tubing on some of my old school kites
and homemade winders.
Have heard that the lines can also be dyed but would think they would be rough. Time to experiment.
Not sleeving lines make them less strong.
Under 50# I don't sleeve. Only problem; It's a bear to equalize. When undoing knots, the line can unravel making it weak. Using a sleever to me is not time consuming, considering I can make a 100' quad set in under ten minutes. With the help of a buddy, made one set ready to fly in five.
Do some planning ahead of time.
Make up a mess of sleeving in the comfort of your home. Have something nice to drink and put on some good music. I find great rewards and satisfaction in making lines and helping people with line problems.

Sharpie marker pens work well, IF they are waterproof.
Had a blue one from sleeving bleed all over a Yellow and Pink Rev 1. What a mess and
wouldn't come out.

Have used Skybond for sleeving: it's kevlar inside dacron sleeving. It has a red tracer in it.
Hard to find nowadays.

Re: Making (or Fixing) A Line Set

Posted: Tue, Dec 30 2008, 01:25 PM
by Jeepster
linekahuna wrote:You can also dye the sleeving any color you want.
Have used Rit dye for this and even dyed some vinyl tubing on some of my old school kites
and homemade winders.
Have heard that the lines can also be dyed but would think they would be rough. Time to experiment.


My first line set was commercially made with all white sleeving and Sharpie red/black marked lines. It worked good for keeping the lines in the right place, but the red color kept rubbing off on everything. I made a couple more line sets with the white sleeving and Sharpie markers until I discovered that Shanti makes the thin sleeving that I like in white, white w/black tracer and white w/green tracer. They also make an all black sleeving. Dan from Shanti told me the black is a little larger in diameter than the white, so I've avoided using it. Different diameters of sleeving on the same line set messes up the amount of line length that is taken up in each knot and makes it harder to even out the lines. Plus, I just discovered that black sleeving in semi-darkness is impossible to work with ... it looks like a fuzz ball in the dark.

With Revs and larks head knotting, it isn't a problem keeping the left and right pairs matched up. Thus, top and bottom colors seem to be the only necessary differentiation. $15 for 100 feet of each color. I cut the sleeving at 15", so with two different colors I can make up 20 line sets. And, it's obtainable ... too many times I've head someone say, I'm still using my old roll of (insert brand name here) sleeving, but I don't think they sell it any more.

Cheers,
Tom